Stefan Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I recently noticed that all my Handmade marbles are twisted in the same direction except of this Onionskin.... is it just me or are those a lot less common? Why is that so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skycollect Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Left hand twist is indeed a lot less common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 The difference is sometimes attributed the the maker being left handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmarblenut Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Left hand twist just twisted the other way and not common, left hand glass workers still use a right hand bench and hold their hand tools in the right hand, I've never seen a left handed work bench or any left handed tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 But a left hand person would swirl a gather in the opposite direction so is it not possible that a left handed person would hold the punty when twisting the cane in their left hand and possibly twist in the opposite direction. Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadely1212 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 i agree with galen... i think it just a matter of whether one is right handed or left handed... it just like anything else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmarblenut Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Gathering is done from the right corner of the furnace opening and done in a clockwise rotation to keep the punty steady against the right side corner, most furnace doors open to the left and would be in the way of gathering, covering or casing would be done in the same way, I've never seen anyone gather from the left side, I've only seen one reverse MFC 9 and I figured it was just a glassworker screwing around as gathering counterclockwise is rather difficult and puts the punty against the hot door farther up the rod than you want to handle, also it actually has nothing to do with the finishing of the cane, that's all done at the bench and on the marver, all the glassworkers I know ( left and right handed ) hold the punty rod with their left hand and use the tools with their right hand while at the bench. When making most marbles I rotate on the marver clockwise and I make the cut while drawing the rod towards myself like most modern marble makers, I think it gives me more control and I happen to like left hand twist marbles. The Italians made most latticino and reticello and zanfirico ribbons in a left hand twist, right handed twists are less common. Why the right handed twist is most common in German marbles I cannot explain other than maybe it was something to do with production, rotating on the marver counterclockwise is actually easier and faster, if anyone has ever been to Fenton glass and watched the teams you will see most rotate on the marver counterclockwise and cut offs are made while rolling away from the body, it is easier to maintain a constant long roll and cut offs drop into a bucket rather than on the work bench. 99.99% of my marbles are left hand twist and I am right handed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manylittle Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Oldmarblenut, as a marble maker, who has been there and done that and knows also about the historic making of glass and how it was done in the day, I'll take your word any day....especially as what you say is backed up by logic. Your description is concise and easy for even me, who has only seen a few very short videos on marble making, to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manylittle Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Don't misunderstand that post. I am not referring to myself as a marblemaker, I am referring to oldmarblenut as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmarblenut Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Gee thanks manylittle... I can't help but step in when needed, people who know little about glassmaking shouldn't give other people the wrong information, it makes it much more confusing for those who don't know and even worse when those people tell other people what they heard. Sometimes random thoughts can lead to great misconceptions. I base my explanations from observation and experience in production work, there are so many things about glasswork that cannot be explained due to the lack of words in our vocabulary, some things just have to be experienced to understand. The old German marble shears I have were made for the right hand and cannot be used any other way, I'll stick to the need for speed and production for the reason most German handmades are right twist, the gaffer worked with a team of helpers, he merely rounded and cut off the marble, somebody else handled re-heating the canes, somebody else carried them to the leer or oven and somebody else actually made the cane, typical teams had more than one cane going at once, while the gaffer was making one marble a helper re-heated the other cane, when he was done with the marble they would switch rods and he would continue making marbles, glass production is based on speed and teamwork, if the gaffer was a leftie who only twisted them to the left I would expect to see much larger numbers of them as production requires consistent steady teamwork to reach their shift quota, glass shops are expensive to run and large numbers are what makes the factory survive. I think the left twists were made when the gaffer had time to fiddle around as he waited for another cane to be made or a problem held up the line. I will try to find a video to demonstrate production and how the team worked together to make large numbers of items in a shift or turn as it was called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 MFCs would not have been made by left handed workers as the shearing and gathering twosome and all the rounding machines were set up in such a way that only right handed men would have done the gathering. And it is a natural movement to swirl the glass onto the punty in a clockwise motion. so that is why almost all are 9s I certainly wasn't questioning nuts marble making glass working knowledge. But I still think the left handed person may be a possibility. Although someone just "messing around" is a definite possibility also. And by the way, I have been to many glass works and watched many folks make marbles including cane types. I have even made a couple myself(right handed twist) Thats all, good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 The marbles I thought were made in China had left hand twists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmarblenut Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I think you are right Steph, they were taught by modern marble makers. Have any pictures of these right hand twists Galen??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Punter Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Could it be as simple as blond moments ? Guys head in the clouds, starts to turn to the other way,oops, but just continues to do so, so as not to waste the glass and time invested ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I think you are right Steph, they were taught by modern marble makers. Have any pictures of these right hand twists Galen??? Actually, I'm thinking of older-looking marbles, not the modern handmades out of China. Some which were found at a dumpsite in Shanghai. (Possibly garbage dump, not necessarily glass factory dump -- I don't know which) And I hadn't noticed this one before, but left hand?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmarblenut Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I doubt a blonde moment would fit in, when you make hundreds of pieces per day you don't have a blonde moment, consistency is the key to production work, it would foul up the whole team and un-twist the cane, it's quicker to throw it away and start fresh than it is to fiddle with it and make it work, common rules in the factories today, I'll stay with the goof around when they had the time. I've worked at both Fenton and Blenko glass while in Wva. on special contract runs, I did the ruby, burmese and cobalt ornaments for Fenton in 2007-2008, our 4 man team made around 750-800 per turn, about 35-40 seconds each one, they were the cobalt Canaan Valley Christmas ornaments and the ruby Mary Gregory ornaments and the Burmese hand painted ones, I had a gatherer, a hooker and a carry in boy, 2 of them were Fenton employees I taught how to make ornaments, this was when I worked for Hinkle glass in Buckhannon. if you search ebay you will find many of the ones I made then still being used in later years with different decorations as we made thousands of them. it still bothers me that Hinkle got the credit but I was working for him and did those particular runs. He only helped out on the Burmese, I was lead gaffer. I can't figure out how to paste the link LOL. :computer-17: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmarblenut Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 They look left twist to me Steph, can you show the doves right side up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Punter Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I doubt a blonde moment would fit in, when you make hundreds of pieces per day you don't have a blonde moment, consistency is the key to production work I am not saying that it is what happened, I just tossed out an idea. However, everyone makes mistakes. If not there would be no errors in life after years of practice People's work tend to be effected by emotions I have seen dug handmades...LOT of messed up, errors. Flat onion skins and that what not. Again, I have no issue with your doubt, but your logic i do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Hey nut, It should be Okay to agree to disagree. It really does not matter in the least how they(handmades) became left handed, twists does it. And since neither you or I were there, it is all speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 At least i got some good suggestions thank you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I recently noticed that all my Handmade marbles are twisted in the same direction except of this Onionskin.... is it just me or are those a lot less common? Why is that so? Left hand twists in an antique German swirl are rare. Less than 1:1000 I would guess. But in an onionskin, they are much more common. Perhaps as common as 1:5? (just a guess) No idea why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I have noticed that in large Onionskins but is it also that way for cane cut Onionskins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'llhavethat1 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Left hand twists in an antique German swirl are rare. Less than 1:1000 I would guess. But in an onionskin, they are much more common. Perhaps as common as 1:5? (just a guess) No idea why. Maybe because onionskins are a more random pattern so you could alternate the twist without messing the pattern up, whereas it would show up more on layered core swirl marbles ? At one point I recall someone brought up the possibility of rolling a left handed one to give their arms a rest from repeated motion doing right handed ones but I don't know if there is any merit to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerieFox Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 They were made in the southern hemisphere. Every 5th grader knows the water goes down the drain counter-clockwise in Australia. <smirk> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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