VTAndrea Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Lizzy asked me to post a picture from my stash of CA cullet purchased years ago from Les Jones. First is a piece of a "blue lace" type: Here's a shot of the entire bunch of cullet. Note that the blue lace is near a peach slag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokoken Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I love CA cullet- that is a colorful grouping. The nice thing about pieces and cullet is that you don't have to worry about it rolling away all the time. Also the interiors of the mibs is quite interesting in its diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poplarhead Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Yeah and the most unuaul thing is it doesn't look like any of the marbles being touted over the last few years as dug CAS.... Oh yes I have pointed that out many times before! Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTAndrea Posted December 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Don, are you talking about the so-called "exotics"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocci Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 yeah, how come you never see any CA exotic cullet? Bocci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokoken Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Well, it wouldn't be exotic if it were common, would it ? Let's not open that authenticity can of worms because of our own ignorance and petty envy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfieldoasis Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Well, it wouldn't be exotic if it were common, would it ? Let's not open that authenticity can of worms because of our own ignorance and petty envy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ken, with all respect, ROFLMAO! marvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poplarhead Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Well Ken- when there is no cullet to support it, when no original boxes are found with them, when all the examples I saw at shows looked like mint off the factory floor condition but were supposedly buried 70+ years and just unearthed, when old time 30+ year collectors who I have met at shows dug the CA site and say they are fakes.... well you get the drift. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokoken Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I don't pretent to be omniscient about Christensen Agate like you, Don. It seems the older I get, the less sure I am about a lot of things. The best eyes for CA that I know belong belong to Brian Estepp. Bill Tow, Charlie Hix, Alan Bassinet, Don Rios and recently departed Les Jones. I think I can speak for them in saying that they do not consider them fakes- not even suspicious. Could you give us contact info for one of your "old time collectors" who is positive that they are fakes ? I, for one, think we have yet to see all the varieties of mibs that Christensen Agate produced- and that is the fun of this great hobby. The hobby is hurt when unfounded remarks are make on a public forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Ken is not one to mince words is he! And may I add that most of the money spent on these little beauties has been by long time very knowledgeable collectors. Who would not buy them if they were fakes! And the story that I have heard has nothing to do with them being in the ground. So there may be another bit of the puzzle that needs to be filled in. The only way they could be new is if Arnold Feidler is still alive and he has all the CAC marble making equipment in his basement. IMHO. Peace,Galen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poplarhead Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Ken is not one to mince words is he! And may I add that most of the money spent on these little beauties has been by long time very knowledgeable collectors. Who would not buy them if they were fakes! And the story that I have heard has nothing to do with them being in the ground. So there may be another bit of the puzzle that needs to be filled in. The only way they could be new is if Arnold Feidler is still alive and he has all the CAC marble making equipment in his basement. IMHO. Peace,Galen <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Guys: There are so many stories around these that it is comical. If you saw the way they were being pawned off at shows it was like a "deep throat" operation you would understand. Bring a 100 to this show- hit a few dealers who buy 20-40 at at atime. Take a 100 to next- all mint shape. Hear from guys who were immediates to the big buyers on west coast claim they don't believe the story on the marbles but hey collectors are buying them. Even one of the names above was confronted by a very knowledgeable collector and he just shrugged his shoulders '' people are buying them". Of course if you are selling them and made thousands of dollars then you would believe they were real too. I was offered them at a show twice and could have bought them too but elected to pass, once even pissing off the guy when I said "who is making these new CA knockoffs?". He immediately came back to that question and told me he had dug them and cleaned them personnally. Ron can vouch for that as he was in room with me. And one of the sellers comes looking for the guy selling the CAs but he had left and tells us he really doesn't believe the story but the colectors buy everyone of them. If you believe them to be real - the more power to you. Nothing is going to persuade you since you probably have a number of them and other than exact scientific testing to determine the real age of the glass there won't be an easy way to tell. I am just skeptical (more thna anything else I have seen in this marble hobby) after what I saw transpire and because of the high dollars passed off on this part of the collector field. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokoken Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Thanks for the support, Galen. Don, again, I request the old time collector's name. The one who is positive that they are fakes. The same person more knowledgeable that Estepp, Tow, Hix, Bassinet or Jones. Secondly, none of the above has ever been offerred 100 exotics at one time. Thirdly, none of them ever bought 20 (let alone 40) at one time. Last February I bought 12 at one time and the source told me it was his largest transaction ever. Not all of these 12 were exotics. Two of them were cyclones and 1 was a guinea. I guess I should be worried that the cyclones and guinea are fakes too. I am not worried. They are all killer examples from an all too short-lived manufacturer - Christensen Agate Company. Hail, Hail to not only that cantankerous Arnold Fiedler, but also Howard M. Jenkins for putting up with Fiedler. MAY THE HOBBY PROSPER !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handymon Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marbleus1 Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I know nothing about the CAC's. I do own about 35 of Brains marbles, they are very nice marbles and have the feel and essence of the marbles they mimic. In picture they are much closer replicas than in hand. In hand its apparent that these are not original transtionals, not to say they might not fool the inexpieranced but unless there are some with a completely differant look than the ones I own they would not fool even the moderate knowledge collector. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handymon Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handymon Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marbleus1 Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I for one am not opposed to a makers mark, I am not fond of the signature chips. This tough is a debate that has been going on for quite some time and resolution is not iminient. Even if reputable makers where to take up the habit the irreputable ones (wherein lies the problem) would not and whats to stop a unscrupuless seller from removing it? On paper a I.d. mark makes sense and would help with the innocent miss I.D.ed marbles, in the context of the problem of intentional mimic fraud it would do little. Tecnology would probably offer a solution but getting it adopted would be another matter. David A unremovable chip or mark would be great but in the meantime I for one love the mimics. But as has happened in the past I dont want to pay $200.00 for it. Its a pickle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marbleus1 Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 The only reply I will give to that is the differances in color and old glass from new is apparent. I will stop my reply there due to the condescending nature that you asked a question I suspect you already know more than I about. david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I LOVE MARBLES Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Being a third generation antique dealer collector I'm well aware that any antique (Antique means at least 100 years old, on most collectible items, cars are an exception to that rule.) or collectibles exceeding the $500. price tag, can and probably will be reproduced & sold as old! Marbles are no exception! Don I totally agree with you, also have voiced my opinion many times on this "exotics" topic before. Marvin you are correct, the colors, both base & striping, are wrong! I'm sure I've offend some of my friends at shows, when they open their keeper case of CA's & I point at 4 or five, looking them in the eye & saying, "This one's a fake, and that one is a fake, yes that one too, And that red guinea, that is a blatant obvious fake!!!" The glass on those red guineas feels a little slick oily, and the transparent red has some cloudiness, not the red I see on my CA slags! Not the transparent red I see on my red flames on stark opaque white CA marble! With glass my fingers are experienced, you long time antique dealers know what I'm saying. Landon D., John K., and Alan B., I'm very sorry, though all three are made by the same maker, because I've held all 3 and know them to be fake! You know I'd have told each of you they were fake had you shown them to me before you bought them! I'm very sorry each of you paid $4000. or more! I think all 3 of you guys my friends, specially you Alan, don't know if we can get your money back, but will be glad to go with you and beat this guy, (who sold you guys all those fake marbles) severely about the head and shoulders, but he's made enough off those fake suckers buy now's probably hired mussel or is unavailable! Ken I can see how you would think this topic a can of worms with as much $ as you've spent on those, oh well that book authenticates them for you, so they must be right. Right? Wrong, I don't care that it's in a book, books can be wrong! Think back now, when did these marbles first show up 1998, back then the colors looked more authentic, as if they made them with the same glass recipes, or a stock of clean cullet, the cut lines looked good, but so many colors most of them had annealing fractures, I'm glad or I too would have been drawn in buy these "exotics" Well I admit I did buy one from Les Jones, colors, cut lines, look right, no fracts, marbleles ebay 1998, I'll keep it though I believe it to be fake also. It really has a snakes head with a forked tongue on one pole! Don't get me wrong not saying anything bad about Les, but these marbles are damn good fakes and really pretty! Who ever makes them quickly learned what colors to run and avoid the fracts! Each & every year I see these exotics at the shows, they get more exotic by the minute! Finally who ever makes these must of ran out of cullet, because the latest ones I see look like Akro colors, in a CA striped transparent pattern. Hey the best thing about me is I'm brutally honest! Didn't I tell you Hey the exotics are fake! Why yes I did. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I LOVE MARBLES Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I'm going to bump this. Really don't see any topic more worthy of discussion, than this. Everybody jump in now so we can see where you're at with this topic! With these being fake it represents a million dollar rip-off & counting! They get more exotic by the minute! Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handymon Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handymon Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 If these CA Exotics are real, can anyone speculate as to why CAC did not market them? Would these not have been an attractive marble to sell, even back then? For Ponko, The only pictures I have: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 I'm finding this thread to be very disturbing as a "newbie". I really enjoy collecting CAC's, especially striped opaques, and my favorite (see the attached picture) is one which I bought from "grannie_june" who bought it at Running Rabbit. I was surprised when I was able to get it for less than what was paid at RR so I asked Alan about exotics. He said he has spoken to a person who had found some and they are legit. I guess I'd like to see that some of the "experts" (BT, Galen) are convinced about them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Ouch! I didn't mean to imply that the rest of you aren't "experts". Sorry if I offended anyone. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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