M. Gropper & Sons, Inc. – Ottawa, Il

[IowaMarble]

Does anyone have information on the M. Gropper & Sons, Inc. Ottawa, IL location? I guess I wouldn’t pass up any good info on the New York, NY location either.

Was the Ottawa location close or maybe even co-located at the Peltier Glass factory? Is it safe to assume that the New York, NY location was the first and/or primary distribution location?

[migbar]

Sellers Peltier and Samuel Gropper entered into the "Peltier Gropper Marble Venture" from 1924 until, I believe, 1928, with offices in New York and at Peltier.

[IowaMarble]

I was hoping you would reply, Mike! Thanks very much for the information!

Do you happen to know if the Ottawa location was located at the Peltier factory?

[migbar]

I think it was at the factory, yes, and I have the New York address somewhere, too; but I'll have to check for the exact addresses later, when I have more time....

[IowaMarble]

I believe the NY address was 225 Fourth Avenue - please let me know if you find otherwise. Thanks again, Mike!

[lstmmrbls]

1931 is the year of the split from Gropper If My memory is correct. The 1931 triple fold brochure with types was the first year without the Gropper logo. I believe I read Gropper Helped get the marble making gouing moving an office into the Pelt plant and helping fund the purchase of some machinery needed for rounding marbles.

[IowaMarble]

Do you know if Peltier ever bought/resold CA's when times were tough (to supplement low production runs of their own marbles)? I am especially curious about the early years. I know MK bought/resold Pelts at one point so I didn't know if the practice could have also taken place at Peltier? Has anyone ever heard anything like this?

[William Marbles]

Here's their 'May 4th, 1934' address......... Same Company????

[IowaMarble]

And yet another address of an unknown year...

[migbar]

The original contract between Peltier and Gropper was signed on August 18th, 1924, and was tentatively set to last for a period of ten years, but they decided to terminate the contract before that time, and did so on June 9th,1931.

Peltier was to buy four marble machines, Peltier paying 1/3, and Gropper paying 2/3

Peltier was to supply and pay for all other necessary machinery, equipment, materials, and supplies.

The Miller contract was signed September 3rd, 1924

M. Gropper & Sons was at the 200 Fifth Avenue, New York,N.Y. address.

The Ottawa address was a room at the Peltier factory, as near as I can tell.

Peltier was to manufacture the marbles, and pack them in containers, and Gropper was to sell them.

Peltier did not sell any marbles on their own until after the contract with Gropper terminated.

[lstmmrbls]

And Gropper picked up CAC marbles after the split with Peltier I believe.

[BobBlock]

And Gropper picked up CAC marbles after the split with Peltier I believe.

Hadn't CAC stopped producing by 1931?

[Steph]

Possibly during 1931. I have been under the impression that Gropper sold CAC's before that too.

Peltier may have been doing exclusive marble business with Gropper but Gropper might not have been doing exclusive marble business with Peltier.

[migbar]

Yes, during the period of the contract, Peltier was required to have only Gropper sell their marbles, but Gropper could sell marbles for other marbles companies concurrently, and did so.

[lstmmrbls]

Are we sure they only had a one directional selling clause in the contract or are we assuming Gropper was using other marbles . And Bob, I have a 1931 catalog that has Gropper Pelts and CAC CACs packages. I have no positive evidence as to when Gropper was selling CACs. I do know many CACc were sold after manufacturing ended.

[migbar]

The contract definitely stated that Peltier could sell their marbles only through Gropper, but there was no clause stating that Gropper could not sell marbles of other companies. I thought I had seen Gropper boxes for other marble companies during the period of the Peltier/Gropper contract, but I could be mistaken about that, because my brains are getting old now.

[hdesousa]

Pretty sure Gropper also sold Akro marbles.

Have a Gropper box of matched Akro spirals.

[clydetul62]

When did Gropper start and stop using the Ottawa address?

[migbar]

Probably August 1924 to June 1931,perhaps concurrently with the New York address.

(maybe I'm wrong here...)

[hdesousa]

Here's more evidence that Gropper sold Akro, unless Peltier made spirals?

Bought this box on eBay 6 years ago from non marble people. Marbles all have the same dusty "patina" and have left marks on the box as if they'd been together for a long time.

There is at least one feathered slag and a row of white slags mixed in with spirals.

[hdesousa]

The original contract between Peltier and Gropper was signed on August 18th, 1924, and was tentatively set to last for a period of ten years, but they decided to terminate the contract before that time, and did so on June 9th,1931.

M. Gropper & Sons was at the 200 Fifth Avenue, New York,N.Y. address.

The Ottawa address was a room at the Peltier factory, as near as I can tell.

Peltier was to manufacture the marbles, and pack them in containers, and Gropper was to sell them.

Peltier did not sell any marbles on their own until after the contract with Gropper terminated.

Interesting dates and addresses.

The second ad was from December 1931, after Gropper and Peltier had split up.

However, their Eastern Sales Office was still at the same Gropper NY address, with the same sales manager,James O'Brien but in the name of the Peltier Glass Company.

[Steph]

LOL. Same room. Same job. Just change the sign on the door.