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I purchased an exotic from Les three years ago at the Madison WI show. The colors are like the yellow/red/black on pages 119 and 124 of Collecting Early Machine-made Marbles. I purchased at the time the debate was raging and asked Les if my marble had come from the sewer excavation in Cambridge. He said it came from the estate of a long time collector and was legitimate.

I have no reason not to believe the marble is legitimate. BUT, I'm a former US Treasury Agent and often did early stage investigations prior to turning the information over to the FBI. I learned to look at events, not just what I am told.

Les stopped bringing CA's to the two shows I normally attend, Madison and Ottowa, after my purchase. It appeared that as the debate got hotter Les backed off of CA's. I purchased other types of CA's from him prior to the exotic purchase and they are easy to identify.

Did any others of you notice that Les was not selling CA exotics at say Columbus or Amana the last couple of years? Personally, I never bought into the exotic marbles, and since there are other manufacturers with great marbles I just put my money somewhere else.

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Hi Ed, and welcome to the board, it's a good learning place, and hope you'll stick around. Lizzy yours is an Alley Agate Superman, and very nice, not fake! Just a couple more questions on the exotics, then I'll let this die as I know it must be a painful embarrassment to many who have huge collections of these. Question # 1 does anyone have, or has anyone seen, an "exotic" with 1 cut line? I ask because I've seen at least a hundred of them, in hand, and they all have 2.

I've heard the story (& it has the distinct aroma of bullshit) about the guy digging with a back hoe at the old factory site, finding a chest full of them. Question # 2 think about this before you answer now. Just How Big Was That Chest????? My guess is that the real story will come out soon, because you just can't hide a huge scam like this forever! They really do get more exotic by the minute.

Scott

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O.K.............I have read and re-read the information and opinions

that are addressing the CAC Exotics. Simple " Marble Logic " is where

my response is coming from.

1. The CAC Exotic is a machine made marble.

2. There should be "features" that would establish an " Exotic " Run.

3. If enough EXOTICS can be brought forth and gathered at one

location. I would think there should be "enough" of these marbles

to start linking them to particular RUNS !!!!

4. This would take a great amount of effort and CONTROL. But

with this marble....... being the " MOST DISTPUTED " marble

in the Marble Community.......I would think "NOW" is the time.

5. Or........is there a better time ???? Not really...........!!!!

6. I can't think of any other "MARBLE" that has been lurking

in the "SHADOWS" and has this "UNKNOWN" ever revolving

history, lack of provance ( circulation, boxes....etc.) and interest.

7. Examples.........High End NLR PELTS ( pretty secure)..............

Pop-Eye Hybrids (pretty secure).................

Sparkles.........always in debate.....but not in question of "REAL" !

My question.........which will hit every nerve, mind set and wallet.........

Is........How important is it to the Marble Community to "Catalog"

this "MARBLE" as an authentic CAC Marble ????

I guess when it comes down to what scares people and has them looking

over their shoulder.........is the TRUTH. Both Buyer and Seller ! AND........

the " MAKER ".

RIGHT ? HUH........talk is "CHEAP".........but these " MARBLES " aren't ! <_<

RAR............Serpants CAN'T leap TALL BUILDINGS IN A SINGLE BOUND !

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after much pondering on if this is politically correct for a marble club officer to comment on, I'm going for it!

I (we) agree with scott!! and there's a lot of 'old timers' that agree as well. food for thought... about 10-12 years ago, there were indeed fake peltiers being passed off as 'peltier experimentals'. they were made from pelt cullet. A prime example of how fakes can be made and passed off as real. There was a leak in the plan though. they had been introduced into the marble community as a 'tribute to peltier', but several unscrupulous people trid to cash in big time. had they not been originally shown as 'tributes' just imagine how that could have snow balled.

I'm not going to say who made them, or who sold them. BUT the fakes are out there, and theres dealers that know they're fake and dont care, the bottom line is the bucks folks. About 15 years ago a gentleman back east purchased a case full of guineas..paid somewhere around 20K. guess what? they were all very nicely done fakes, yep that long ago. so it's not a new story... sooo just to open up another can of worms.... mfc... didnt make red marbles huh? why/ because cullet has never been found? I believe, and I could be wrong here, thats the reasoning behind that statement. anyone getting my drift here? hmmm. recap;

no red cullet found in mfc digs, so they never made them.

exotic cullet not found, so they did make them.. hello??

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GEEEEEEEEEEEEZE US JEFF................. :o

There are only a FEW people who KNOW the true characteristics

of these CAC Exotics ( including you )..........But you refuse to

share this information.

WELL AREN'T YOU SPECIAL !!!!!!!!!!!!! <_<

NAH...NAH NAH....NAH....NAH !!!!!!!!

Thanks for your response..........you kinda put yourself

in a very precarious position.

Someone or some people might see what it TAKES to make you TALK !

Think about what you just said ( typed ) :huh:

WHOA DUDE.............ALOHA........... :unsure:

RAR

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just one more thought...I believe there are some extremely talented glass artists out there that could surely come close enough to the 'real deal' that they could fool an aweful lot of people....especially if they had the right cullet. I dont think one could ever assume that it couldn't be done. Some of the guinea fakes are beautiful imitations, as are the fake clambroths out there too. sure there's going to be some 'real ones', but anytime there's something, anything, that commands a high dollar, there will be fakes, and not just in the marble world. One would have to be incredibly niave to think otherwise.

B)

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you only have to look at chris robinson's road & tunnel marbles to see the sense in what scott and ernie are saying. (at least in regard to the POSSIBLITY of someone faking a CA) kelly schmidt was doing some pretty nice knock-offs, and he was relatively new.

how many stories are there about where the exotics came from? i heard they were found under the floorboards inside a building, and that's why they were so clean.

that business about there being "only" a certain amount of time - bringing up images of frantic diggers looking over their shoulders...how did they have time to sift out the good marbles from the 'broken pieces of glass'? if i had to dig and get my ass out of somewhere before i got caught or the place was closed down, i wouldn't be doing my sorting while i was there with my bucket, that's for sure. makes me wonder if the people who tell these stories have ever actually dug a marble before.

i'm really curious to know more about the fake "experimental peltiers" - does anyone have any pictures?

~chris

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Guest howgoestheenemy

After looking at those few photos posted of CAC Exotics in this thread, I don't see why it would be necessary to lie about their origin. Seems like they would go for pretty fair prices even if they were sold as imitations. JMUO

The U is for uninformed... :unsure:

Edited by howgoestheenemy
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WOW.... 3 pages of one of the toughest subjects we've ever been over!!

Yes, it's gotten a little warm here and there, as it probably should!!

But, what a joy it is to see a discussion by adults, who can handle a tough subject and still act like adults!!!

Thank You!!!!

;)

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It does appear that most of the people that have this type do not feel the need to defend them. I will say that if they are fake there is absolutely no way they were made by hand or on one of the home made marble rounding machines. If someone has CACs original machines and Their original glass, Then yes they could be modern. Thats it for me. Peace,Galen

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After looking at those few photos posted of CAC Exotics in this thread, I don't see why it would be necessary to lie about their origin. Seems like they would go for pretty fair prices even if they were sold as imitations. JMUO

The U is for uninformed... :unsure:

Hi Cath, you didn't need to look any further than your own avatar to see an "exotic" it's the transparent blue with red/white stripes. The beautiful "Miller" Rebel that follows is my marble, it's a book marble, in the Castle/Peterson book. Please don't take it down, as I'm flattered you picked one of my marbles to use in your avatar. The reason they lie about the origin of the "exotics" is the difference between 20 dollars, and 1000 dollars.

Scott

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Guest howgoestheenemy

Most, or all of those marbles in my avatar, and the one over on Marble Mental, were sold by Marblealan. I wish they were all MINE!!

I would pay alot more than $20 for one of those CAC Exotics!

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Jeff Hail, yes I know it's Hale, but also know that on the marbles subject you'd like it to be Hail Jeff. Jeff I can see by your post that it is way past time for you to attend Scott's school of tuff marble love! You must of forgotten the "exotics" post on Alan's board, that someone asked why the exotics are so pristine wet mint if dug, and someone else replied that they were dug up in a box/chest. I'll only give you one barrel, don't think you can handle the double barrel. You must have forgotten who I am. Do you remember "The King of Akro Agate" marble you used to brag about and post, until I showed up at Amana 2002, and asked you if you wanted me to sign that marble? You know, the boulder lemonade limeade oxblood corkscrew. Then after that those obvious fake marbles you bought from "betahall" you know the ones I told people about on Alan's board. Then the college student Ryan, is that who you got your digger info from? What about those blatant fake hand-gathered guineas you post? Then the kelex marbles, I also posted and told people they were fake! All those fakes were easy to tell. The reason I know fakes because I've made them, not to deceive anyone, nor to make tons of money, but just to see how easy it would be! The "exotics" are much better fakes, not torch-made but machine-made, very sophisticated, that fool most people! Jeff you wouldn't know a fake marble if it bit you on the ass, because it has and you still don't know! Jeff ten years ago, I used to think you knew something about marbles, now you're just an expert, (a has been drip under pressure) you've stagnated, as you think you're the guru, and know more than anyone. This is your wake-up call, there are thousands of people now that have better marble knowledge than yourself, I know because I'm one. So just knock it off with the holier than thou, attitude that you project in your posts. It just don't work any more. Besides your posts are long winded with little or no first hand information, just a bunch of innuendo's, name dropping, and second hand info. Do I believe you were at any of the digs? No. Do I believe that you know anything about Les's or Brian Estepp's business? No. You misspelled Brian's name by the way, if your going to talk about other peoples business at least spell their name correctly. Did you get a Christmas card from Brian, Meliea, & Alyssa Estepp? No, but I did as they are good friends of mine! Do I believe you know anything about the "exotics"? No. Do I believe you'll reply to this and get the second barrel? Yes.

Scott

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Galen you hit it right on the head. Since these marbles have such a

"interesting" storyline....and it's filled with all the elements of a great

mystery novel and suspense movie.............I don't see it ever being

something that get's totally resolved.

So.........maybe it shouldn't. I had posted that if an end to all the

contervesy truely wants to be put to rest...then a it would take

a HUGE INVESTIGATION.

That's not going to happen. After I thought about it......it's actaully

benificial in a very weird way that these do exist.

It's always going to be intersting to hear about the bits

of information linked to these marble come to light every now and then.

To bad it wasn't a plot against a HUGE money sucking Corperation where

"WE" the Marble Community could ALL benifit from. One that would

allow ALL of US to kick back and laugh our ass off as we sit on 6 figure

savings accounts. Or we've buried our 6 figures in the backyard and can

dip into it at our own leisure!

RAR............ :D

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While, I am no marble expert and have made (continue to make) my share of marble mistakes over the years, I also feel very strongly that the CAC 'exotics' are fakes. There is simply too much circumstantial evidence or indications that they are not legitimate to consider them anything else but very good, possibly excellent fakes.

We have heard several to more than a handful of different stories about their origins or entrance onto the scene. My biggest question is, can you show us cullet with similar coloration and patterning? Of 'digs', there should be 'exotics' in varying condition, I think. We have not seen any to date. Onlu perfect ones exist? That's very odd indeed. Also, where are the ones of lesser condition? Do any exist? They should as well unless of course for some reason CAC 'exotics' defy 'dig' traits. It seems to me some have manufactured stories consistent with explaining away these questions. The facts do not fit the conditions as they now exist.

Don's comments as to what we have seen and been told at some shows is 100% correct. Even those who sell them in mass have doubts. That tells me a lot.

I agree with Don, Mary Mary and others who see them as bogus yet beautiful.

Ron

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