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I can't tell if the top is old or new.  I could see it going either way. 


The bottom two were made on Peltier Rainbo machines, but they look non-typical enough to me to make me wonder if those Peltier machines might have happened to be at the Kokomo factory.  


When in doubt choose Peltier over Kokomo ... but I would like to see more straight on seam shots of those two.  

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The top one looks like god chance of Champion.   First time I have heard of Peltier Rainbo machines.  Did Peltier also have Comic marble machines or Banana cat marble machines, etc. A different machine for each type or style marble.  Plus they would needed to have a different marble machine for each different size of that type or style.  A marble machine just makes the hot glass glob round. I am sure you could make a Banana cat eye on the same marble machine that made any Rainbo.  All the Jabo swirls were made on old original Vitro machines that made patches or ribbon and patch marbles. I have myself made swirls or patches or ribbon and patch marbles on the same exact marble machine. A marble machine does not make any one certain type style or design marbles. That all happens before the hot glass glob hits the marble machine rollers. 

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24 minutes ago, wvrons said:

The top one looks like god chance of Champion.   First time I have heard of Peltier Rainbo machines.  Did Peltier also have Comic marble machines or Banana cat marble machines, etc. A different machine for each type or style marble.  Plus they would needed to have a different marble machine for each different size of that type or style.  A marble machine just makes the hot glass glob round. I am sure you could make a Banana cat eye on the same marble machine that made any Rainbo.  All the Jabo swirls were made on old original Vitro machines that made patches or ribbon and patch marbles. I have myself made swirls or patches or ribbon and patch marbles on the same exact marble machine. A marble machine does not make any one certain type style or design marbles. That all happens before the hot glass glob hits the marble machine rollers. 

 

 

:)  Well, Kokomo got the machines from Peltier, and then made marbles resembling Peltier Rainbos.   That was my  standard "playing it safe" reply for marbles which look like Peltier Rainbos but something a little off.  Now I have to think of a new one. :) 






William, thanks for the extra seam shots.    Ron said Pelt over on that other thread, so I'll say the needle tips more strongly toward Pelt here too.  :thup:   

Happy Easter to you too!

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Yes I think Kokomo got marble machines from Peltier. But Jabo got lots of machines from Vitro. Jabo marbles don't look like Vitro's.  That is my point the marble machine just makes the hot glass glob round. Brian Graham in Ohio owns a old original Miller made machine from Peltier. He has produced lots of marbles with it. None looked anything at all like any Peltier ever made. Akro had Miller machines same as Peltier but the Akro marbles look different than Peltiers. It is another old myth that will not go away in my lifetime. That a certain marble machine made only certain type style or company marbles. Jabo could make patch or ribbon marbles anytime they wanted. Marble King could have made swirl marbles anytime they wanted. But the two of them had a verbal agreement or custom of one would produce swirls and the other would produce the patch and ribbon marbles. This was according Dave McCullough and Beri Fox. I ask both of them that question,  why they didn't make both swirls  or patch and ribbon marbles. I have a problem of letting this old myth keep spreading for the future. No one yet has ever gave me any proof at all. that one certain marble machine made any certain type style or marbles that other marble machines could not produce the same. There can be and were lots of different equipment with different companies, upstream before the actual marble machine, which influenced or made the type style or certain marbles. The marble machine does not go from the back of the furnace until the finished marbles drop in the bucket. The marble machines were only one part of all the equipment in making marbles. The marble machines were all movable portable. To change marble sizes, a different machine was moved in under the other stationary equipment and furnace. Each size marble requires a different size grooved rolls. They did not change out rolls on a marble machine, they moved a different marble machine in and out to make different size marbles. If each company had a different marble machine for each different type style marble they produced. Plus all the different size  marbles they produced of each type or style. Each company would have had hundreds of machines. How many types or styles of Akro-Vitro-Peltier marbles were produced ? In how many different sizes were each type or style Akro-Vitro-Peltier marbles produced. That is a whole lot of marble machines at each company. I know Vitro had from 15 to 20 marble machines. But they made more marble type styles and sizes than 20. Plus when those Vitro machines left Anacortes WA, the same machines made swirl marbles at Jabo for many years. Until I am convinced that one marble machine made only one certain type style marbles. I will continue to try and spread what people who owned marble companies, worked at the companies, have told me. Plus what I have seen in person and what I have helped do making machine made marbles. I am always open to any new information. I do not want to offend anyone. If any of the above makes no sense, I will listen. I have changed lots of thoughts around marbles over the years. But this one has not changed as of today. It is any ones chance to help me change. Convince me and I will spread the information as possible.  The marble machine just makes the hot glass glob round.  Sorry, but I have to speak up again and again and again. 

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Interesting history too me! Your a wealth of knowledge in my opinion, Ron and am ever so happy pay attention too experience. You too, Steph, and too others that take the time too offer their opinions, advice or knowledge, especially when they know more than I. It shouldn't be offensive to anyone, novice or pro, when knowledge is shared. There's almost always something to learn from someone or somewhere. Community members value each other's opinions, thoughts, experiences, etc. while working together for the greater good of the hobby, not get irritated or offended by them. If someone is that thin skinned, then that saddens me. Personally, from a longtime collectors viewpoint, I'm loving it and my new hobby. Truly appreciate all you say and share, folks. Happy Easter 🐇

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So a more likely scenario is; a marble machine operator came with the machines from Peltier, or, Kokomo sent people to train at Pelt before the machines were sent, or both.  It seems to me that a basic slag or swirl type would be the simplest and anything else would take more thought.  How the colors come together would happen in the feeding/shearing process and not the marble machine step. (this from someone who has never made a marble, or even seen one being made). All this is a long winded way to say that the similarity of Kokomos to Pelt  Rainbos is more likely because of personnel and not equipment. Thanks

Bruce

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2 hours ago, William said:

Interesting history too me! Your a wealth of knowledge in my opinion, Ron and am ever so happy pay attention too experience. You too, Steph, and too others that take the time too offer their opinions, advice or knowledge, especially when they know more than I. It shouldn't be offensive to anyone, novice or pro, when knowledge is shared. There's almost always something to learn from someone or somewhere. Community members value each other's opinions, thoughts, experiences, etc. while working together for the greater good of the hobby, not get irritated or offended by them. If someone is that thin skinned, then that saddens me. Personally, from a longtime collectors viewpoint, I'm loving it and my new hobby. Truly appreciate all you say and share, folks. Happy Easter 🐇

Dito, well said.

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I think Kokomo did have some marble machines that were at Peltier. I don't know if any workers from Peltier that went to Kokomo ? But I also think Peltier used Kokomo glass for their marbles. So both companies did use the same glass. How long the time they used the same glass, I don't know ?  Many companies have marbles that are very similar because the same or very similar glass was used to make the marbles. I am sure Cairo and Heaton used much of the exact same glass, probably out of the same dump truck. They were only 1/4 mile apart. But this is also when the companies had switched over from raw batch glass to cullet for making marbles. Many of the old marbles like Peltier NLR, Vitro Tri Lites, and others made early marbles from raw batch glass not cullet. With time they all had to switch to using cullet to cut cost, compete and stay in business.  There can be a  big difference in one companies marbles because of this. The same machines at any company could have made the  marbles from batch glass and the marbles made from cullet. So glass used also plays a important role in what the marbles look like. But that will not affect the type style or pattern of a marble. That happens in the furnace, special equipment to add colors. flow out of the furnace and any special equipment before the shear, flow to the shear and through the shear. Then the type style or pattern of the marble is 80-90% complete.  Then the glob travels to the marble machine rolls where it falls into the roll grove and is rounded. It is rounded in the first 2-4 groves of the rolls. After that the remaining part of the rolls just holds that roundness as it cools.  The longer rolls allow for more cooling time before the marbles drops into a can bucket or catch container. If they are not cool enough they will not be hard enough to eliminate sticking together and lots of hit marks. The marble machine makes the marbles round and lets them cool. Next the marbles have to be cooled or annealed over a longer time 12-24 hours to be completely cool to touch.  

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