BuckEye

This is the most important part: Although studying the artwork and the fine print in this 6 consecutive-year sequence of ads has yielded great insight into these two Gropper boxes, at least 2 more important conclusions can be drawn. The change from the 103- National Onyx boxes to the 1931 National Rainbo boxes may mark the start of production by Peltier of the National Rainbo style. Also, the popularity of the slag (onyx) was fading fast. The ads for 1931 could easily have featured both lines, but they did not. The National Onyx line was so much less desirable then the National Rainbo line that only one line was offered after 1930 in these wholesale catalogs. (Peltier in 1932 did not even offer a small box featuring the National Onyx line.) The original letter was from 1930 which lines up with Brian’s theory...

This is from Joe’s marbles and written by George Sourlis. GROPPER’S No. 5 AND No. 10 BOXES By George Sourlis During the late 1920s and the early 1930s, M. Gropper and Sons was a prominent jobber of marbles. It bought marbles form Peltier Glass Company, Christensen Agate Company and Akro Agate Company and sold them under its own company name. The company may not always have had the same name or may have used two names. This is indicated in the letterhead shown in Plate 1. PLATE 1 THE GROPPER ONYX AMRBLE COMPANY LETTERHEAD Gropper’s No. 5 and No. 10 National Onyx boxes and National Rainbo boxes are shown in Plates 2 and 3, respectively. The earliest No. 5 boxes contained 5 marbles, while the earliest No. 10 boxes held 11 marbles. The terms “National Onyx” and “National Rainbo” are company specific to the Peltier Glass Company. Onyx marbles are known by collectors as slags, and white-based rainbos are sometimes called Peltier baseballs. The sides and backs of the No.10 boxes are similar to those shown for the No. 5 boxes. PLATE 2 NATIONAL ONYX BOXES PLATE #3 NATIONAL RAINBO BOXES The typical interior geometry of these boxes is unusual as shown in Plate 4. The top lid closes by folding forward, while the bottom closes by folding backward. On the bottom back and top front of the box are fold-in shelves or steps. They create vacant spaces roughly from below and above the black center band on the front of the box to the bottom and top, respectively. Some boxes have U-shaped inserts on each end instead of the attached ones below. Because they are not attached to the box, boxes may be found without them. PLATE 4 GROPPER NO. 5 & NO. 10 BOX DESIGN DETAIL Advertisements from wholesale catalogs for all of the above boxes are shown in Plate 5, one of the last 2 pages of this newsletter. They first appeared in 1926. The ad for 1927 is essentially the same as for 1926. In both years, the No. 5 box contained 2 #0 and 3 #1 marbles. The No. 10 boxes contained 4 #0 and 6 #1 marbles plus 1 #2 shooter. Look closely, and it is apparent that the 2 lower holes in the No. 5 boxes are short rectangles having semicircular ends. The ads in Plate 5 for the No. 5 box in 1928 and 1929 show that the lower slots have been changed into circular openings. Close reading of the fine print indicates that the marbles have changed size in both boxes. In the No. 5 box there were 2 #00s and 3 #0s, while in the larger box there were 4 $00s and 6 #0s plus 1 #2 shooter. The total marbles in each box stayed the same – 5 and 11, respectively. The physical box sizes stayed the same. Product changes in 1928 reflect Gropper’s excellent market skill. PLATE 5 GROPPER AD In the 1930 ad shown in Plate 6, the No. 5 box is not shown. So it is uncertain if the lower opening remained circular; the marbles’ sizes were changed back to the large sizes of 1926 and 1927. The number of marbles in each box remained the same, and the physical sizes of the boxes were unchanged. The 1931 ad for the No. 5 and No. 10 boxes in Plate 6 shows two changes. Each circular opening in the No. 5 box has reverted to the earliest opening shape. Best of all, the number of marbles in each box size has increased. The No. 5 increased to 6 marbles: 3#0s and 3 #1s, while the No. 10 increased to 13 marbles: 6 #0s, 6 #1s, and 1 #2. The physical sizes of the boxes remained unchanged, and the marbles are the same sizes as in the 1926, 1927, and 1930 boxes. PLATE 6 Included in this article is the successor to these Gropper boxes. It is the Peltier Glass Company No. 106 shown in both Plate 7 below and the ad I Plate 6. It contained 10 marbles: 8 #0s and 2 #1s. A larger version of this box is also advertised; it contained 18 marbles: 14 #0s and 4 #1s. To the best of my knowledge, this box has not yet been found in the wild. Pictures for Plate 7 PLATE 7 PELTIER GLASS COMPANY NO. 106 BOX AND MARBLES Although studying the artwork and the fine print in this 6 consecutive-year sequence of ads has yielded great insight into these two Gropper boxes, at least 2 more important conclusions can be drawn. The change from the 103- National Onyx boxes to the 1931 National Rainbo boxes may mark the start of production by Peltier of the National Rainbo style. Also, the popularity of the slag (onyx) was fading fast. The ads for 1931 could easily have featured both lines, but they did not. The National Onyx line was so much less desirable then the National Rainbo line that only one line was offered after 1930 in these wholesale catalogs. (Peltier in 1932 did not even offer a small box featuring the National Onyx line.) I want to thank Charles and Diane Brandstetter and Lester Jones for allowing me to photograph and use their boxes in this article.

Yes, I agree. They have a pearly opalescence to them for sure.

Could the flints be the marbles in the left column of this “grocki” box? The milky white ones?

That’s very likely as well, good thought

Good point. It says flints go up to size 3, which is 13/16”. What production marbles Were made that big? I have Lots of striped opaques and transparents. None get that big that I’ve seen. I have a 15/16” cobra but is the only one I’ve seen and I’ve only seen a few 11/16” tops. Bloodies at 13/16”——yes moonies at 13/16”——yes American Agates at 13/16”?——yes. I have A few. What kind of glass was the most expensive? Wasn’t it red because it used a form of gold oxide? Selenium was maybe red too I forget. John, You would know. I’m just trying to think what was abundant enough to fill boxes up. Maybe electric orange slags. Those get that big.....abundant enough where I have Halves and pieces of cullet and others would too. On to search my books for “flint” stamped on a box....

John, I think you are right on buddy! I’ve never seen any other box than Akro be labeled flint. The only thing I could Think of was maybe cac opaques like Galen has a box of.....

Bump, anyone have any ideas?

Found this in the archives. Maybe be the A is for assortment? Clays and glass....?

Great stuff Brian. Here is a pic from American machine made marbles. Says it was an ad for Christensen marbles. You can see Gropper boxes throughout the ad and the bag of Albright clays in the top left corner. The ad was attributed to Hansel. Maybe there is a better photo of it that he posted so we can read it.

Albright mesh bag with clays, opened for viewing. Look to be an exact match to the Favorite Gropper box clays.

Albright box with champion stamped on it....... dots are starting to connect. You can see the Gropper address under the ripped Albright label

Brian do you think Albright and Gropper could be linked? Any idea on the years Albright was in business? It’s odd how some Favorite Gropper boxes have clays like the example above. I’m betting the clays came from Albright.

Thanks Steph, that top one might be the 25A for Albright?????? 25 count...

Another one 15 count. This is a rare box

Here is a favorite display box 50ct

Perhaps Flints were American agates? I think I figured out the code. This is a cac slag box with a Gropper tag and stamped favorite. This is 100ct. It corresponds to 100A on the list. Maybe the A stands for Agate and are really Onyx (slag) marbles

Can we assume this is one of the favorite boxes from the ad? On the paper under display boxes, some have an (A) next to the number. Like 10A. Wonder if those are Albright? Although I thought Albright was a jobber like Gropper. Perhaps the box shown is “15”.

I just Noticed how much the box of Guineas was! They were expensive, but not as much as flints.....

Here is Hansel’s professional box, I know It’s Albright, but maybe the two are linked.....

Here is a bill of sale from the same lot.

I recently acquired a nice marble collection and this gem was tucked away in a pile of ephemera. It is a revised price list for Gropper to a buyer. It names Christensen as the provider for the marbles and is from 1930. It also gives a description of the marbles boxed and prices. See favorite, professional (2 color) and champion (3 color). In a previous thread on Gropper, Hansel kindly shared his Gropper box that had professional stamped on it. Now we know why. (Someone find the link please). I figured we should all share info and then we all can learn. Hopefully this sheds some light. Read carefully. Craig

It’s hard to say if the top pole is supposed to be blue because there is some green up there. The bottom pole has that swatch of green to it. Not sure how to answer that Alan. It looks like patch/r/r/patch but that could be me wanting it to be that way. I also Am getting a weird vitro vibe from it. Is that a possible conclusion?

So I picked This up yesterday. It looks like a mk dragonfly and is on a white base. What do you guys think? Something about it looks different. Could it be an older version? It is patch/ribbon/ribbon/patch Craig

Thanks! They gave me a better appreciation for the handmade colllectors and their fervor.