shiroaiko

@I'llhavethat1 happy to see the whole advertisement! 😃✨

I was wrong in saying a sticker but a leaflet...

@TheVacorFan, we need your help! The yellow sticker looks kind of new. The fragments read ... in der bayeris..., ....bei Coburg..., and ....neustadt.de. The last one looks like URL.

@akroorka, thank you for helping keep the conversation headed in a good direction! I now realize that my mention of the word wasn’t appropriate for this forum, even though I meant it only as a light joke. I had hoped it might bring a smile, since hearing from the deceased isn’t actually possible. I sincerely apologize if it made anyone uncomfortable. I appreciate the thoughtful discussions here and the time people devote to marble research. I agree, this kind of work requires patience, and I have a great respect for that. I’ll continue doing my part while learning from all of you. @I'llhavethat1, the photos of more original bags are helpful. I see the city name "Coburg" on the yellow sticker in the second photo. What does the whole text say?

Completely changing the subject—but just to let you know, I might not be able to visit the forum much until sometime in next week. On Saturday, May 3rd, I’ll be giving a marble talk at the Yamagata Prefectural Industrial Science Museum. The event is for ten families with children, elementary school age and up. I won’t be speaking for that long, but I’m busy with preparations, so I may be mostly offline until then. It’s currently Golden Week in Japan, a string of national holidays, and we’re right in the middle of it now. The holiday continues through Tuesday, and I plan to spend some time with my family. I’ll be back to work on Wednesday—and that day is also already fully booked until late in the evening. 😃✨ Yamagata Prefectural Industrial Science Museum: https://y-sunka.org

Hi Nantucketdink, I’ve thought about your comment for a day, and I’d like to share the basis for what I’ve been saying. Here are the points I’ve gathered so far: ① Renée Holler told me that the marbles featured on the cover of her German marble book Murmeln are from the Hopf factory. The cover photo includes wirepulls. ② Shackman poly-netted bags contain the same kind of wirepulls and have a “Made in West Germany” sticker. ③ Renée visited the Hopf factory in 1986 and witnessed marble production. This confirms that the factory was still operating at least until that time, which helps explain the “Made in West Germany” labels on Shackman bags. If Hopf was still active then, we no longer need alternative explanations—like old Veiligglas stock being repackaged in West Germany long after the company had closed. That kind of explanation now feels forced and unnecessary. ④ In 2006, cvdv visited the German Marble Museum and learned that a mesh bag containing wirepulls was dated to around 1965. This information came from the museum. ⑤ cvdv also learned from the German Marble Museum that Hopf & Hopf produced wirepulls from around 1950 to 1980. ⑥ I own one of these mesh bags. The wirepulls inside resemble the marbles shown on the Murmeln cover. Of course, what you think and believe is entirely up to you. I’ve explained everything I can in this thread, and I really don’t have anything more definitive to add. If you’re still looking for a more definitive answer, maybe the only option left is to hold a séance and ask the people who were actually there!

Hi @LevvyPoole If you found the pictures helpful, I’m happy! Big bubbles are caused when the glass stream is cooler. If the glass is soft enough, it simply accumulates in a metal cup without leaving gaps between the layers. But when the glass is cooler and harder, it tends to trap gaps. These hollow spaces then become big bubbles inside the marble. I guess lowering of temperature can happen with any maker.

This morning I decided to open the mesh bag for taking pictures. According to cvdv (Cees), this type of bags is from around 1965, but we don't know from when to when these bags were in use for Hopf packaging. The paper header was stapled through 3 parts. I think I did a good job removing staple pins. The mesh felt brittle. I dealt with a care. "Hello, marbles! At last I see your faces clearly!😃" The diameters range from 18.5 to 21 mm. Most of them are spherical, but a few exceptions. Below are close-ups. Because of the white background, the white in the ribbons becomes hard to see. The light also comes thru the ribbons. Because of these factors, the marbles might look a little different from how they actually appear. 🙏 We see some tiny fractures along the yellow ribbon. Below are Hopf wirepulls on a darker background. I see small bubbles along the ribbon only on the blue one. This group photo shows more of what my eyes actually see than close-ups. 🫧

@Da Roberto, @TheVacorFan and @LevvyPoole, the idea of comparing sounds fun. I also feel that it would be a good idea to start a new thread focusing on Hopf vs Veiligglas wirepulls. Thank you, Elias and LevvyPoole, for bringing up the suggestion! It will help keep this original thread focused on Hopf information, and allow us to organize the comparative discussion separately. I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's wirepull examples there!

@TheVacorFan , as @Ric mentioned, one of the features that can help distinguish Hopf wirepulls would be the presence of reflections and bubbles along the stripes. However, the examples I have from the mesh bag don’t show much of these characteristics, and the same can be said for my loose examples. I think there are some exceptions. In the color part along the ribbon, you can sometimes find tiny white grains, very much similar to grains of sand. These grains seem to be incompatible with the glass and cause small fractures, which in turn create the reflections. I also notice bubbles along the ribbons in some wirepulls, but I’m not sure if they are related to the sand-like particles. I took some pictures today, but most turned to be not good. The wirepulls below are what I found in German lots.

@Ric Thank you, I finally reached the price list you mentioned. 🙏 A post in "Trip to Lauscha" posted by cvdv contains important pieces of information on our topic, including the 1953 price list of Hopf &Hopf company and a 1964 wirepull mesh bag photo. It says after a trip to the Marble Museum in Lauscha, Germany, he searched for information on wirepulls. "Then The Wirepull: This marble was made by the compagnie Hopf&Hopf from Coburg-Esbach, as far as I know, this was not in East-, but in West-Germany, but very close to Thüringen. From about 1950-1980 the wirepull was (only) made by this compagnie. The owner of the factory invented the machine by himself. Its almost sure that the wirepull was made on the same way as the Illmenaumarbles. First I didn't believe this all, but then they told me that they had some original pricelistings (is this the English word?) from the compagnie and I bought some original bags with wirepulls, made about 1965 from them. There is also a picture of two men (Hopf&Hopf?) made in the factory. I only show one pricelist, but they copied three for me. For now, this is in short time what I found out this last year, I hope it's usefull for some of you, if I find out more, I'll share it again. Cees." This is a great piece of information not to be forgotten.

@TheVacorFan Thank you for your translation, Elias! 😃🙏💕

@I'llhavethat1 I think the packaged wirepulls that were shown earlier are Hopfs. 🫧✨ @Ric It's great to see these netted bags.🫧✨ I think these wirepulls are quite common in German lots, the newer-looking wirepulls. I think everyone here would like to look at them out of the net. Can you untie the open end of the bag without causing any damage for photographing?🙏 I will shoot my loose examples in a few days and post here. About Brilliant marbles, I don't know for sure if it is Hopf product. The box has a trademark... do you recognize anything which makes you think that connects to Hopf? I see something like A and E, but the A is with a design... a squirrel with a big tail? I enjoyed Steph's post very much. Thank you for letting me know. Lots of photos and informative.🫧✨ One of the photos from the Marble Museum showed wirepulls in the same paper-labelled bag. In 2022 I learned from Brian that the marble museum had artifacts from 3 of bankrupt marble companies. One of them was H. E. Hopf. https://www.allaboutmarbles.com/viewtopic.php?p=359175&hilit=TOKU#p359175

@TheVacorFan Elias, thank you for letting me know. I understand... so it’s difficult to reach the owner of murmelwelt.de. 🥲 I hope he is alright... @Ric I’ve been interested in the Hopf factory ever since Elias and my friend translated the report for us. This time, I was lucky to come across a YouTube video where the author tells her story, speaking in Spanish. The book was published in 1986, so I thought Renée must be a very old lady—but it turned out she was young! 🙏✨ Then it wasn’t difficult to find her website...I sent her a message from there.

@Fire1981 Hopf's wirepulls and more... Looking for Information! is the new thread. Please take a look when you can. 😃 💕 ...I can't change the font size!

Hello @Fire1981! This is the post. Please look at the cover photo I'm going to show below. I think yours look similar. 😃 On April 11 2025, I sent an inquiry to Renee Holler, the author of Murmeln (1986), a German book on marbles. The message I sent wasn’t very personal, so I share a screenshot for reference. In 2022, Elias Fitz @TheVacorFan and my friend Helma Rud put in extra effort to translate Renee Holler's marble factory report. They were very helpful, and they did a wonderful job. Thank you! 🙏💕 Holler Murmeln translation by H. Rud. The next stop on the tour of the factory premises is the glass marble production. The machine, which the owner designed himself and which he had built according to his own sketches, is unique - a monster made of bricks and iron constructions that spits out colourful glass marbles. After a mixture of waste glass, sand and soda has been poured into one end of the gigantic contraption, everything seems to work by itself. On its way through the machine, the mixture is melted into a viscous paste at high temperatures. At the end, the finished glass mass is pressed out of the apparatus, like toothpaste from a tube, while the clear glass is simultaneously sprinkled with liquid, colored glass from a second opening. Candy-sized pieces are then cut off from this glass paste and then fall onto a roller. They roll along the spiral-shaped surface - still wet - in order to fall, already formed into a ball, onto a second roller on which they are cooled by a fan until they finally fall into a tin bucket as finished marbles. The colored glass thread, which was sprayed onto the glass before cutting it off, is twisted into the marble by the movement of the roller while the glass is still soft, in which it can later be seen as a streak. In the past, glass marbles were painstakingly made individually by hand. It wasn't until the middle of the 19th century that the first step towards a faster production method was made: Christian Greiner, a German glassblower, invented marble shears. With these scissors, at the ends of which two hemispherical shapes were attached instead of cutting surfaces, a strand of glass was simply cut off and the rough edges were filed off. However, only fully automatic, electrically operated machines, such as those in Dörfles-Esbach, made glass marble production a worthwhile trade. Nevertheless, business is declining, the machines stand still for most of the year: when children stop clicking ( = playing with marbles) , the most beautiful marbles become superfluous (unnecessary). As for the other translation completed by Elias, we will wait for him to join us here and post his version when he can. 🙏💕 The translated texts were originally posted in my thread "Euro Stripey cats, Canadian Purple and cats from Japan!" on All About Marbles in Jan 2022. At that time, we were searching for a possible Stripey maker in Germany. We kind of concluded that the marbles described by the author were not stripeys, but sparklers. However, the description is very difficult to interpret. Now I have started to think that they could have been wirepulls. I wish to hear the answer from the author. https://www.allaboutmarbles.com/viewtopic.phpt=49477&hilit=Canadian+Purple,+Euro+Stripeys+some+cats+from+Japan&start=50 =============================== On April 16, 2025, I received a reply from Renee Holler herself! 😃 What a big honor! Since I haven't obtained permission from her yet, I won’t share a screenshot of the reply. The main points of her response were as follows: ① The author’s visit to the factory was in 1986. ② Mr. Hopf, the owner of H. E. Hopf factory, showed her two ways of making marbles: clay and glass. They made both clay marbles and glass marbles! ③ The method of making glass marbles was described in her book on page 19. Fully automatic. ④ The marbles on the cover of the book were from Hopf’s factory. ⑤ No specific mention was made about the type of marbles witnessed at the factory. ================================ I am currently waiting for another reply from her. On April 20, 2025, I sent a second inquiry. This time, following a piece of advice from Elizabeth Kempski @Pinx, I asked her to confirm whether ALL of the marbles on the cover were from Hopf’s factory. I also shared some marble information with her as a way of showing my gratitude. For ease of reading, I first type my message to her. This time the letters are a bit too small. Screenshots follow afterwords. "Dear Renee, Thank you for your reply. I am very much excited to know that the marbles on the cover are Hopf's. It is a maker that we only knew by name. " (Hopf stationary with 1965 date) The stationary photo is from @akronmarbles. Thank you, Brian! 🙏💕 "Now we have a photograph of their marbles... it will become a big news to the marble fans. Do you know marble forums such as Marble Connection and All About Marbles? We share knowledge on marbles and discuss there. I have one more thing to be confirmed to you... were ALL the marbles on the cover made at the factory? This is important. ============= Below are two examples that are to be Spielwaren Hopf packages. To my eyes, the marbles (wirepulls) match the style. " (A netted bag of wirepulls saying Made in West Germany.) "A poly-net bag is distributed to the American market by Shackman & Co. An American collector Buckeye posted the photos at marble Connection in 2017." (The same netted bag showing backside saying Shackman NY) This plastic netted bag photos are from recent post by @Ric.🙏 💕 Thank you for both Ric and the owner @BuckEye ! 🙏🙏❤️ (A natural fiber net bag with a paper label.) "Another example. It doesn't say anything on a paper label. My friend bought it for me as a gift at a Tokyo shop which specialized in vintage DDR goods. Although they were not from East Germany, I am now honored to own these marbles. When you know the history of the maker, even if it is a small portion, love deepens. Thank you for your work" (The same paper label bag with loose matching marbles from a German lot.) "Very best wishes and thank you, Aiko Suzuki" ========================== I believe we can identify Hopf marbles by closely looking at the photos. The cover photo is in A4 size. It's large enough to see the details. Buy Renee's book while you can find! I hope @akronmarbles join us and share Hopf's patent information with us when he can spare his time. 🙏✨ Also, any information about Hopf’s products or its history is welcome, please feel free to share it here. 　

@Ric I think Euro swirls/wirepulls were made by Veiligglas, Hopf and Seike.　 I cannot think of any other names, since I don't have any proof. Do you happen to know any other possibilities? It would be great if we could keep exploring these things together.😃🫧✨

@akroorka Thanks for letting me join.😃💕 I've got my boombox when I was in the 5th grade, used it for recording a voice letter to a class mate. At night on the radio was music like Shine on TV by A-ha, Sade and Stevie Wonder. I listened to the radio throughout my teenage years. A Japanese music critic, Yoichi Shibuya, often recommended artists like the Gipsy Kings and Weather Report. Before my interest shifted more toward jazz, I listened a lot to David Bowie, The Police, and Frank Zappa. I love the unique beautiful voice of Kate Bush... my brother had lots of her cds.

@Fire1981 Many thanks for posting your marbles. From the newer look, I feel Hopf for these, but I am sorry if my way of seeing them is wrong. I planned to talk about Hopf marbles in near future, but if you can't wait, I can explain it here. 😃 Do you want me to do it right now?

@Ric The questions you asked are probably the ones many people here have been wanting to ask too. But I’ve already shared everything I know. I’ve spent quite a bit of time digging through the archives of Japan’s National Diet Library and Japan Patent Office. The documents I’ve mentioned are all I’ve been able to find so far. I suppose your question is related to wirepulls, because you are one of the owners of "foreign" Codeg boxes. Please let me explain. First, here are the clues I’ve got: ① Seike filed a utility model for a swirl-making device in 1936.（https://www.j-platpat.inpit.go.jp/c1801/PU/JP-S12-013819/22/ja I would do line-to-line translation in a near future. Please remind me and request if I forget to do so. I have many things to be talked. ） ② The Bolitas Japonesas boxes hold wirepulls. ③ In a 1937 glass industry conference, he stated that the UK was his largest customer. (Dec 1937 “Science and Industry / Kagaku-to-Kogyo” https://dl.ndl.go.jp/ja/pid/3334881/1/33 ) ④ Seike’s Duck Brand Trade Map includes London, Amsterdam and another port in Europe. (“ 1951 Duck Marble advertisement for domestic market (Side A)" https://marbleconnection.com/topic/39400-1951-duck-marble-advertisement-for-domestic-market-side-a/#comment-335643) ⑤ Fairylite was a trade name used by Graham Bros., a London-based toy importer (1887 to 1970). They dealt mainly in the import and wholesale of items made in the Far East / Hong Kong. (A post by slagqueen Sep 27 2019 at AAM. https://www.allaboutmarbles.com/viewtopic.php?p=321847&hilit=Fairylite#p321847) ⑥ We see names of Graham Bros and Cowan de Groot in Japanese trading documents in 1935 and 1936 ("Ministry of Foreign Affairs Trade Bureau Daily Report No. 286", Ministry of Foreign Affairs Trade Bureau, 1935. https://dl.ndl.go.jp/ja/pid/1893946/1/360?keyword=Cown+de+Groot & "Directory of Overseas Importers, 1936 Edition" Edited by Osaka Prefectural Trade Hall, 1936. https://dl.ndl.go.jp/ja/pid/1228204/1/35?keyword=Coran+de+Groot) ⑦ Fairylite imported toys from Japan, as seen on boxes like the “Moon Explorer,” marked “Made in Japan” with the Fairylite logo. ( A post by Alan Dec 31 2007 in Steph's "Fairylite ... German? American?" https://marbleconnection.com/topic/7707-fairylite-german-american/#comment-68004) ⑧ A Fairylite marble box marked “Foreign” includes green marbles with dark green bits—a trait found in Seike’s glass. (You can see the dark green bits in all 3 marbles from wvron's photographs ”Interesting vintage box of marbles” by wvrons Sep 27 2019 at AAM. https://www.allaboutmarbles.com/viewtopic.php?t=43695&hilit=Interesting+vintage+box+of+marbles) ⑨ “Foreign” was used to label Japanese goods in the UK due to anti-Japanese sentiment after the Manchurian massacure and during the war. (Nobuo Kumagai "The Japanese Tin Toys from 1880's to 2010's" I talked about this topic in Steph's "Fairylite ... German? American?" ) ⑩ This labeling continued into the postwar years. (Nobuo Kumagai ) 11 Before 1954, Hong Kong imported marbles mainly from Japan and re-exported them to Commonwealth countries. (“The Glass Marble Industry of Hong Kong” in Steph’s “New Cat’s Eye Historical Data” Apr. 29. 2009. https://marbleconnection.com/topic/11272-new-cats-eye-historical-data/#comment-95175) Then a story based on my research: When Seike began producing machine-made swirls, the type described in his 1936 patent, he also started exporting them. Many of his marbles were shipped to the UK, which had become his number one customer. To take advantage of favorable tax treatment under the Most Favored Nation status, British importers routed Japanese marbles through Hong Kong. However, after the Manchurian Massacre in December 1937, anti-Japanese sentiment surged in Britain. Boycotts of Japanese goods began, and the labeling on products was changed from “Japan” to “Foreign.” By the summer of 1941, exports of Japanese goods to the UK had ceased. That situation continued until the end of the war. During wartime, the Japanese government, anticipating future export potential, allowed the marble industry to survive as part of wartime industrial restructuring. Seike’s joint company continued marble production throughout the war. ( "The Industrial Readjustment for Small and Medium-Sized Businesses in Osaka; The Fact-Finding Report on the Industrial Readjustment for Small and Medium-sized Businesses Under Osaka Prefecture", The Osaka Chamber of Commerce and Industry, 1943. https://dl.ndl.go.jp/ja/pid/1058348. I talked about this in Steph's "Fairylite ... German? American?") This is why, immediately after the war ended, Seike was able to supply his marbles to the global market. Here’s what the postwar European marble scene looked like: “Since the war, the German marble manufacturing disappeared and the Netherlands only has one marble factory. Also France still has a marble factory, but that’s all there is in Europe. The largest marble producer is Japan.” (From the post “Dutch Marbles Roll Over the Globe” by Winnie, May 18, 2016 https://marbleconnection.com/topic/22077-french-marbles/?do=findComment&comment=196685) Even after the war, anti-Japanese sentiment remained. Some distributors who had handled Japanese marbles before the war began to seek alternatives, or inexpensive marbles made in other countries. Cowan de Groot, although based in Britain, is thought to have Dutch roots by its name. After the war, he approached a glassworks in his homeland, the Netherlands. He asked if they could produce swirl-type marbles similar to the popular Japanese ones from before the war. As a result, Veiligglas began making marbles in 1949. I believe that for them, it was crucial to emphasize that these marbles were “Made in Holland.” That phrase was printed on the boxes to differentiate their marbles from the Japanese “foreign”. From this point, Seike's marble exports to the UK declined. I’m sure Cowan de Groot and others would not have done anything so foolish as to pack Dutch marbles into boxes labeled “foreign”—that would’ve ruined the purpose entirely. In 1954, new tax regulations were enacted that disadvantaged Japanese marble imports. The use of “Foreign” labeling was completely banned. This change greatly reduced the appeal of importing Japanese goods via Hong Kong. Hong Kong started producing marbles, both clay and glass from this year too. Trade volume dropped, and for Seike, this must have been a serious blow. ============= I believe that by gathering information from many sources, we can deepen our understanding and increase the reliability of what we know. In fact, I’d be more interested in asking the reverse questions. Do you have any documentation that shows exactly which manufacturers these distributors imported marbles from? Are there any records that clearly connect other marble makers to these toy merchants? That kind of information will be important as much as the documentation I have found out. I’d like to know what’s out there from the UK side.

@Ric I agree with you. Seike’s marbles really do show a wide variety. They are a reflection of both his passion and the times he lived through. He made marbles over a long period, facing many changes—like the depression in the early Showa era, the war, material shortages, and trade restrictions. He had his ups and downs, and all of that reflected in his marbles. Some of his marbles are beautiful, but after the war, there are also pieces that don't look as good, due to the high content of recycled cullet. I’m not sure whether those were exported or not. It seems that his company ceased operations around 1959. One main reason (except for his age) was a sudden surge in marble production. A newcomer to the industry, who initially knew almost nothing about marble making, struggled with his new equipment. He asked an engineer named Yasuaki Hosoi to help improve the system. Hosoi turned out to be the right man. The improved system was a great success, and other factories quickly followed. Production grew nearly tenfold in a short time. Overproduction led to a price collapse, and only a few survived. The impact was worldwide; marble makers in Europe and America also shut down. (I will post a translation of Hosoi's memoir in the near future.) I’ve mainly collected marbles from Japan, the UK, and Germany, so I’m sure I can learn a lot from you about WV swirls. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Hello everyone, it’s noon here in Japan, and I’m back on the forum. I figured my earlier post might stir a confusion... For now, the safest approach would be to study marbles that are still in their original packaging. That’s where we can gather the most reliable clues. For that, we’ll need the help of those who own such boxes. I need your help, @Ric. Once we’ve studied more, we may be able to recognize what was likely made by Veiligglas, Seike, or ... Hopf, but only by comparing them closely with well-preserved original examples. As for why Japanese marbles were labeled “foreign” before and after the war, Steph's thread “Fairylite... German? American?” has some good background on that. I posted about it there last year. I also talked about toy companies like Cowan de Groot and Graham Bros. in “1951 Duck Marble Advertisement for Domestic Market (Side A)”. Feel free to check them out! I also would like to hear from @Mojo and say hello. ----- @akroorka Oops! I didn't see your warning when I posted! I will delete this post on your request.

@Ric That is a good idea.😃 @davesnothere I also look forward to the photos. 🫧✨ @akroorka when I use the term wirepull, I meant swirls that were thought to be made in Europe. I didn't know the definition until recently, til I read wvron's post giving the explanation. I closely looked at the photo of Dave's, enlarging it to the maximum. My overall impression is that the group has many swirls/wirepulls with wispy striations. To compare, I joined two photos. Roberto's bolitas japonesas box is on the left and Dave's wirepulls are on the right. We see two swirls in light tan in the original box and one in Dave's. Below are individual photos Roberto shared with me. They are great closeups. Have fun looking at the details. Here's another set of photos. This time Dave's marbles are on the left. Please look at the hiding marble that I circled in pink. My eyes kind of attracted to the one. It has a little bit of blue mixed in white. You see this kind in a smaller bolitas japonesas box which holds only 9 marbles. Again, the image is from Roberto. He couldn't remember which source he found it. FYI below are some original boxes of Seike's which have "foreign" country of origin. I started a thread titled "Seike's 1936 Wirepull Invention" at another marble forum in 2022, where I did line-to-line translation of his utility model right. All the photos were contributions of @Nantucketdink there. These boxes are probably well-known to the people who are interested in wirepulls. Some part of the consensus of Veiligglas wirepulls has been made around these boxes. Now it is time to study these marbles one by one. At the end I share 3 marble photos from wvron. Back then he was the owner of the bolitas japonesas box. Marbles look a bit different when the photographer is different. 😃

@Ric @davesnothere Fibrous wiggles make me think they are Seike's... Below was my answer when I had an inquiry from @YasudaCollector some time ago. And also two of the local finds which also have that trait.