hdesousa

  Several oxblood Greiners and a couple lutz!

You say, giving me undeserved credit,  "You have a lot of knowledge, let it flow... ".  I am pretty much unable to distinguish a well made fake glass marble from the original;  actually, I developed a reputation for having more dollars than sense.  That's why I tend to collect glass marbles in labeled, original boxes with a good provenance. 

You say "I can't recall one informative post from you that talks about how to identify real or reproduction marbles or medals".  There are others much better skilled and qualified to do that on the boards - I tried several other ways to educate collectors - mostly by buying mimics from the source and reselling online, described as such.  But that backfires when the marbles get resold as rare and genuine, e.g. a $20 one inch red road and tunnel slag for several hundred dollars, or a $40 green glass eagle sulphide as a German antique, for several thousand dollars, or $40 sets of forty Chinese handmade marbles (with Marble Alan's cooperation) resold as German swirls.

Sending Mark Chervenka of Antique & Collectors Reproduction News a group of genuine and repro medals, as well as contributing information on California sulphides, from which he published a couple excellent articles, may be my most effective "educational" contribution.

I have a fairly large collection of modern reproductions.  This thread was originally from Steph on behalf of Martin Bowling looking for some of Scott Patrick's onion lutzes.  I had a few.  I also have every shamrock marble bought from you - your $1 marbles were just as useful to me as your regular priced marbles - I obviously was not buying defective (or regular priced) marbles to fool anyone.  But am still scratching my head as to why you got so upset when I told you my intention of selling (your better marbles) on eBay, especially after you'd spent the better part of the day expertly demonstrating your machinery and how exotics are made.

Finally, you ask "What have you been up to? ".  The answer is not much.  Been out of touch with the repro world for probably a decade; with some exceptions, one being a box of Kelly Schmidt guineas, at least half of which I cannot tell from a genuine guinea, but continue to examine them, to educate myself as well as to admire them.

9 hours ago, Shamrock Marbles said:

Alan is spot on.  If one was to research what a sociopath is - Scott Patrick was the poster child.  Scott reveled in pointing out the ignorance of the base collector society.

Don’t forget that Scott had superior skills.  The shame was not preventing people from being duped, but he enjoyed watching collectors tripped up in their poor judgment.

Now, there were a few contemporary “collaborators” that supported and encouraged Scott with his peripheral behavior. These (This) person(s) would like to rewrite their past behavior.

Sociopathy can be found in all societal segments. Marbles are no exception. Be warned on all posts.

No one is trying to rewrite history.  Everything Alan, Steph and you say about Scott is true. But since De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est,  I'm trying to illustrate some of his 'superior skills'.     Fakes/forgeries/reproductions etc exist in practically every collectable hobby and the key to protecting collectors is to educate them by publicizing the mimics.  It's interesting that the only two marble makers who have physically threatened me for wanting to do so are Scott (over his adding oxblood to akro marbles) and you, when I wanted to point out the similarities between shamrock marbles and Christensen exotics.

Scott was a master forger with a conscience, which I discovered when he told me a medal/watch fob I had just bought on eBay was a reproduction.

Here's some more of his work.  His colored glass sulphides could fool most, as he started out with a genuine German sulphide and covered it with colored glass.   The partially covered blue bear in the upper left gives you an idea of the tedious process; it was difficult to keep the marbles from cracking, he said.

On 11/21/2023 at 9:46 AM, Steph said:

Scott's friend Martin posted this in Scott's memorial thread.  I figured I should ask about it in the general chat.  Does anyone have any information about the Kingly Line?  Pictures of it?  Knowledge of who owns any?  Thanks.

 

 

Is this what you're looking for?

Ric, Were you able to find anything about George Sourlis' whereabouts?

I'm actually surprised marbles are still made here. 

This article was written 13 years ago.  Probably much worse now: https://www.businessinsider.com/basic-products-america-doesnt-make-2010-10

30 minutes ago, Ric said:

I cannot find nor have I seen any trace of an obituary, Hansel.

How do you know he died?  Last I heard he was moved into a nursing home; our mutual friend Lutzy died but I'm still trying to get hold of George, unless I know for sure he's no longer around.

Found this on the internet- "Today, there are only two American-based toy marble manufacturers: Jabo Vitro in Reno, Ohio, and Marble King, in Paden City, West Virginia."

There are many online outlets.

Can't vouch for any of them, but here are a few:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803517997506.html

https://www.temu.com/marbles-s.html

https://www.moonmarble.com/c-47-bulk-marbles.aspx

Not exactly a find from the wild, but it was an exciting score:

On 11/26/2023 at 9:16 AM, Ric said:

Unfortunately, George passed away a few years ago.

Ric, Do you have a link to his obituary?

I remember visiting Jabo, soon after they had moved to Reno, Ohio in the late 1980's or very early 1990's and their main product was clear industrial marbles, destined for spray paint cans.

On 12/15/2023 at 2:30 PM, Al Oregon said:

Hansel, you had posted a picture a few months after Burt had.  Is this picture showing the same box that you show above (different bag)?

 

Wow, that looks like my picture, so I must already have that box, with what looks like it's original contents.

I'd forgotten about it when I came across that incomplete box when searching for something else. Too much stuff vs. increasing cognitive decline.

Thanks for the memories!

Bought this several years ago on eBay. Doubt the bag or the marbles are original to the box.  No insert.  Anyone know what the original contents looked like?

In 2015 I bought one of these razor sharpeners on eBay for $55 and then another for $50.  The seller kept listing them and the price kept dropping.

I asked if he would sell me all he had left, which he did, and he also allowed me to use his pictures and description to resell them on eBay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175505307389  (not intended to be a shameless plug)

I sell perhaps 2 or 3 per year on average.

This month, a buyer returned one saying it was brand new, since the patent date was stamped 9/25/23

Time flies, but don't you also love eBay?

We've discussed German marble beads in the past:

Several links no longer work.  This is the article by Lee Linne: https://www.fohbc.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/MarbleBeads_BE_SeptOct2010.pdf

There are at least 3 types of antique marbles that have their bead counterparts.

German agates from Idar-Oberstein; German (Laucha) glass swirls, including "Greiners", "clambroths", banded opaques, micas and "Lutz"; and Chinese "quadrant" and crumb decorated marbles.

Beads, as personal adornament, are usually perfectly made, whereas marbles, made for kids to beat up as toys, are often found with imperfections.  I've long speculated that apprentices made playing marbles, until they were skilled enough to make beads.  Here are some pics of beads from the internet.  I'll post some pics of marble look-alikes later.  Bead collectors know a lot more about their collectables than we do about marbles.

https://www.academia.edu/38347431/CHINESE_GLASS_BEADS_Export_and_Minority  (might have to sign into academia.edu in order to read - it's free and safe.

3 hours ago, Ric said:

Excellent, thank you very much for the link. I looked high and low and never came across this page. They are sort of quirky and I like them quite a bit.

 

 

The  Kister Scheibe Alsbach porcelain factory was in operation between 1860 and 1990. https://www.theoldstuff.com/en/porcelain-marks/category/472-scheibe-alsbach-marks I know of at least one other ceramic marble factory in the area (in Steinach) that went out of business around the same time, and many previously unseen painted 'bennington' marbles came out of there.  My guess is that those 'weird' marbles are not new, but were probably made relatively recently, after we had stopped importing marbles from Germany.

Not sure if this has been posted here in the past.    Was told the  Glasfabrik Wernerhutte sold handmade glass marbles until the 1950's.

1 hour ago, Ric said:

That's a nice group. I like the variety of designs and colors. I would think the ones with lines running through the designs are less common. Did you find them all together or put the group together over time?

Bought them from a couple different sellers from Germany.

There are some of these marbles on display here https://www.facebook.com/neuesschlossrauenstein/  They were found under the floorboards, when the porcelain factory was converted to a museum. Many of these towns were on the Porcelain Road.

8 minutes ago, hdesousa said:

Here's a description of the provenance of those weird marbles on eBay. Seems legit.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/24-excavated-victorian-painted-858932562

Scheibe Alsbach is also where scenic chinas, and probably many of the other painted china marbles, were made.  Part of the Porcelain Route.  Porcelain was probably more important than glass was in Lauscha.

                                                                                                                            (Showing off here, but also providing information that might not be commonly know known to marble collectors.)