Another Marble For Consideration

[I'llhavethat1]

Does the marble in the OP look like most vintage marbles? no. Could it still be a vintage marble? yes. Will anybody ever know for sure? probably not. Still fun to discuss and see examples tho.

A good portion of my 'old' handmades don't react under UV. Some are brighter than others, some don't appear to glow at all. As far as the faceted pontil goes, I'd expect a fair amount of variation or inconsistency in technique (picturing some guy just trying to avoid buzzing off his cramped fingers on a big grinding wheel all day). <----that mental image could be totally wrong.

[jeroen]

Looks new to me, most clear glass made prior to 1936 will have a very light glow under UV, manganese was removed from clear glass production in 1936, not all manufacturers used it, also the pontils are too fine, typical faceted pontils are a tad rougher and done with a rotation, not flat and strait, this looks to be ground on a 600 of finer diamond wheel, also, the slightly reversing twist on the one pontil makes me think contemporary as well as the many trapped bubbles under the cane, typical mistakes made by new glassworkers.

JMHO

I have seen a lot of difference in faceted pontils. I think that I'llhavethat1is right, that there is a lot of variation. Why making 5,6, 7 facets. if it is possible to give the pontil a good look with only two facets? Some of the bigger marbles I have, have only 2 or 3 larger facets. Others have more small facets. And you say a lot of trapped bubbles? Sorry, but I almost see no bubbles at all! I have seen many old handmade marbles, with lot more bubbles than this one. Those marbles on ebay from the Bulgarian sellers have many many bubbles. This is an example, but I have seen Bulgarian marbles with even more bubbles: http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-hand-made-marble-1-mint-GROUND-PONTIL-/321325878689?pt=Marbles&hash=item4ad083cda1

I still think it is an old one, because of its origin from the UK, and it was in a lot with only other old marbles. The pontil looks right to me, and the cold roll line is something seen often at old hand mables. How is that with contemporary marbles? Do they have cold roll lines also?

And an other thing. Especially the old single gather handmade marbles (transitionals) and old sulphides, have sometimes very smooth pontils. I think they used very fine grinding. A sign of great craftsmanship. One have to look very carefully to even find the faceted pontil. If I look at your second photo, the blue lutz marble. The pontil I see at the marble right, would immediately make me suspicious, if it had no signature, that there is something wrong with the marble. That pontil does not look right to me. But I must say the marbles you are making are very nice.

[oldmarblenut]

"almost no bubbles at all"

In your first group of photos I see at least 10 bubbles in at least 3 photos, almost none? most are trapped under the canes.

what you see as a cold roll line is not a cold roll, it is a hang up from the marble mold used, most likely the cause of the semi reversing twist on the one pontil, yes new marble makers have all experienced this problem at some point.

I've found many "new" marbles in jars of old so going that route is not always safe, check the other post about the "marble for Hansel or any other astute collector" it is probably not old yet was found in a jar of old marbles.

JMHO means just that, it's only my opinion, not the law of marbledom, sorry if you disagree but we all don't see the same thing. I wish a few other marble makers would chime in with their observations.

[jeroen]

Ok, JHMO is opinion, sorry, but 10 bubbles in an old handmade marble, that is absolute nothing! I just looked a several other of my old handmade marbles, and they do have more bubbles. This one is one with alsmost the lowest number of bubbles my old handmade marbles have!

See this lobed onionskin. How many bubbles can you count? Have a nice day counting ;-)

This a subject I disagree with you, but that is the good thing of marble collecting. Dissagreements it is often what makes us learn most from.

I forgot to tell that there are old handmade marbles that has some kind of a ghost core that is made up entirely of small air bubbles.

[oldmarblenut]

Seedy glass..... I stopped counting at 1125 LOL

You should not post a picture and ask questions if you are going to jump on everyone who does not agree with your opinion. Why ask if you already made your mind up?

Maybe it is made of plastic by that one armed one eyed German from Italy with dyslexia?

FYI, I am far from a beginner when it comes to old handmade marbles.

A cold roll line is caused by the hot glass bunching up and folding a crease on the surface, sometimes called a marver lap, the mark your marble has is clearly a semicircle with a fairly clean line and not a fold, hence my opinion of hang up in the mold.

As for the pontil on the blue/white lutz, it was freshly made with no finger oils rubbed into it, a little time in the hand and they looked much more "old"

We all make mistakes, part of being human, however.....in my group of new marbles do you notice the Josephs coats with lutz? I saw one of them sold on ebay as a genuine vintage rare Joseph coat with lutz, it sold for $375 with 34 bids in 2009, I emailed the seller and asked to see the pontil mark, my signature was polished off leaving just a hint of the faceted pontil, I informed them that I made the marble and showed them a photo of it's twins, no mistake as you could easily count and match the colors and note the lutz placement, they told me to back off and mind my own as they said they found it in a jar full of handmade marbles they purchased from Germany. I made those all around 2005 to 2007 and sold them for $10 each. Since seeing that auction I have not used that marble tool again. I wonder where my tangerine orange mica's ended up?

It's your marble, call it what you like but remember, when somebody says they don't think it's old, don't jump on them for having an opinion. No harm no foul.

[savage-28]

I didn't think he was jumping on you. I thought he was simply stating a rebuttal to your opinion.

I think these types of conversations are thoe best on the forum... It forces those with opinions, to make detailed accounts to express their point. Which is great for sharing info and teaching others.

Keep it up!