Scoop Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I do not "know" that this type,with the white solid core center is most common.Just going on observations,over the years.There's no documentation,on the # of each type made,100 years ago.It could be that the ones that were most desireable,dissappeared into collections,makeing this type "appear" to be the most common,made. That's really probably very true... I don't think it's really a matter of rarity... I think it's more a matter of.... The people who are looking for a type of marble "Formerly Known as Tri-stage / Tri-levels" are not looking for these marbles... So, they're maybe not that tough to find.... LOL Let me go back to the Superman thing... If someone calls a marble a "Superman" because it has the colors of Superman, why would we need to differentiate between a Pelt Superman and an Akro Superman?? Handmades don't have the advantage of company names... But, in this case, it's a similar analogy in beauty, rarity and value. This is my one and only "true" tri-stage handmade. It is 25/32". How rare or common is it? That's a beauty!! As Griff says... It's tough to say how rare is rare... I don't think what I call tri-stages are as terribly rare as some other types of handmades... They just aren't as common. So, when you have a sizeable collection and there's just no need to buy another typical latticinio, solid core, divided core, etc... These are something to look for. In the average show, it's possible to find a few. But, you have to look for them.... I would say they are probably about as common (or, uncommon) as a ribbon core. Another benefit to collecting them is the variety!! When there's 3 layers to work with, the combination possibilities are far greater... Again, that brings me back to those "common" types... In those, the center and second layer are always consistent.. Transparent color against a white core... The 2 levels work together, but rarely alone... Though, I am sure there are variations to that... I have a solid white core with an opaque yellow "cage." (see below..) Why would that be a tri-level, if the others are not?? Good Question... Whether it is, or isn't... It's far less common, so you can call it whatever you want!! I bought it!! In the end, it's about "unique construction" more than levels... The "Tri-level" thing only came up because it's the one thing they all have in common.... I am very interested in understanding the difference between a rare and common tri-level swirl. Sure Sami!! Here's some pictures I have handy of what I consider Tri-level... I'd like to do a better comparison to the others, but I don't think I have the pictures handy... I'll try to work on it and either add or edit as I can... I may have to steal some pics off of ebay and it may take a while... This is not what I'm "supposed" to be doing today!! In the end, I don't think anyone's mind will change... And, that's OK!! .... But, if we can put out enough info to teach the differences, at least the people who are interested will understand and be able to determine for themselves what they like.... In the end, that's what's important. A name, is just a name.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m!b$ Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Actually, I'd have to say that in most cases, I prefer the "pseudo" tri-stages, where the layers work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Alrighty then,,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m!b$ Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Another one. Tri-stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manddrakes Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 The green solid core really helps the white latticinio stand out. Interesting colors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 It's really cool to explore this beyond the question of... "Are those transparent colors far enough away from the solid white core to call it...." This one is even more questionable than my white core with yellow cage... The white lines are very definitely tuned into the green, rather than being a design of their own... So, is it?? Or, isn't it?? Like the very first one in this thread, my feeling is.... "Who Cares??" It's incredibly unique. Does it have to wear a label? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinemades Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks guys for the effort to explain. So far as I understand it, the core makes a difference in how common or rare the Trilevel swirls are. Is the solid core with a rare color or a ribbon core, or a latticino core makes it rarer or desirable? How about other layers making a difference in rarity? I know I am pushing this a little further, but it may be worthed for educational purposes. Sami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Chamberlain Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Sami, I recommend Stan Block's book titled SWIRL MARBLES(2001) Schiffer Publications. I'm sure you could obtain it through Schiffer or the MCSA. Stan has an abundant supply I would imagine. It runs about $40 and is well worth it. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Identification is the easy part for me.Handmade swirls are named,or identified,based on the structure in the marble,Its literal,with few exceptions Unlike,MOST of machine made names are based on color,or color combonations.Prime example is the superman,name.The reasons,there is a Peltier,Akro and even alley,supermen,is based soley on color.There are very few,machine made marble "names",based primarily,on structure. Desireability can only be determind by you. Rarety,should probably be put into the form of a poll. There are too many opinions,on what is rare,with NONE of them,based on,black and white facts.Just observations,and experiance.It would be nice if the records,of mintage,were available.There are,"guestamations"on numbers,but Im not aware any documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Is the solid core with a rare color or a ribbon core, or a latticino core makes it rarer or desirable? How about other layers making a difference in rarity? I know I am pushing this a little further, but it may be worthed for educational purposes. There are too many opinions,on what is rare,with NONE of them,based on,black and white facts.Just observations,and experiance.It would be nice if the records,of mintage,were available.There are,"guestamations"on numbers,but Im not aware any documentation. Griff did a good job with that... Hell, we haven't even solidly determined a firm definition!! (At least in MY mind!!! LOL) Let alone a degree of rarity or value!! I'm still inclined to call the first 2 examples "Solid Core with Floating Color" Usually, that floating color is transparent... I'm also inclined to call the green one the same... Huge difference in that it has opague color and the core is green... That is HUGE!! But, I still have difficulty calling it tri-level... I see it as the white still being a part of the core... The white doesn't stand well alone... Again, as Griff says... Handmade swirls are named,or identified,based on the structure in the marble,Its literal,with few exceptions Literal yes... Which is what causes an issue here... Because the name is tri-level and it can be taken more literally than it was originally intended... Terms are FAR more under a microscope now, than they were when they were coined... I'm sure the internet has had a large play in that. Allowing this sort of conversation to happen (Which I think, is good...) So... Back to my point and your answer... I call these questionable examples "Solid Core with Floating Color" because it is a literal name... And, it differentiates them from what I consider a "Tri-stage" in a way that the Tri-stages cannot be differentiated from other handmades, because... unlike a "Solid Core with Floating Color"... there is no large grouping that are the same, in any other way... Only in that, they have 3 stages of design..... On rarity and value... Griff's right. I can only say they are "less common." Doing the extra work involved to make them, would be more time consuming... Toy marbles were not an art form as they were made. That's one of the things that amazes me about the variations and the fact that some of these "oddball" designs even exist... Under what circumstances were workers allowed to take the time to be more creative?? Was that work appreciated by the glass house?? Did it ever reflect in original value?? Occasionally, we see old advertisements for "premium marbles"... What was the criteria for that?? Obviously, goldstone / Lutzes had better billing (I've seen those)... Mica probably did... But, did anyone ever pull this type out and say, "Hey, we can get more money for these!!" Could they have taken the extra time making these marbles, to experiment, teach and learn for the purpose of using the education for making higher end items?? Or, was it just a "who can out-do who" competition spawned from boredom?? Uh.... OK... I'm getting farther away from that question... But, the question has made my mind wander!!! LOL The thing is... It seems like not calling these "Floating Core" marbles "Tri-level," indicates that they are not as "worthy" or valuable That is absolutely NOT the case... It's JUST a name... Unfortunately, that name has been equated with $$$ (And, it seems to work!!) That green core is simply INCREDIBLE!!! Whether you call it a "tri-stage" or a "solid core with floaters"... Then, yes... Of course!! The color of the core makes a huge difference to others of it's style... Since a ribbon core on it's own is less common, I would think a ribbon core in a tri-stage would be a plus... But... Even at that, the REAL value of most any marble comes down to it's appeal... The most common of designs, with the right twist, or colors, or... Whatever!! Even size & condition.. These days, it's so hard to find very large marbles in excellent to mint condition... This all has to be taken into account... So, to say with a blanket statement that a ribbon core in a tri-stage... Say it's a simple ribbon...will be more valuable than a far more common latticinio core, or solid core.... Would be irresponsible... Give a common marble an extra twist, or something to make everyone say "WOW!!" and it will always beat out a less common marble that has less appeal... OTOH.... Put a KILLER razor ribbon in a tri-stage and... Well, YEAH!! It's gonna make a hell of a difference!! Just as that green core does... Sorry for the long rant.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Ooops... Even at that length, I forgot..... How about other layers making a difference in rarity? I have a 4 level... And, I've heard of others... 'Never seen one sell. So, it's tough to say how much of a factor that is to others, price-wise... It sure is an attraction to me!! Also... This made me wonder.... Has anyone ever seen goldstone in a tri-stage?? I haven't... That would pop eyeballs!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Never heard of a solid core,with floating color,before,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Never heard of a solid core,with floating color,before,,,,,,, That's cuz everyone figures they can sound more "special" and make more money by calling them tri-level / tri-stage!!! You have to get into the head of someone on the other side of the wallet!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I dont knowwww,,,that,Solid Core with Floating Color sounds a little more "special",than tri-level(stage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Special yes? Or special no.... Close your eyes, say it in your head and tell me it doesn't make sense.... Snicker!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m!b$ Posted February 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Those tri-stage ones where successive layers don't enhance the previous layer, don't make much sense to me. Why have a fancy inner core, then obscure it with irrelevant stuff that doesn't add to it. I don't get it. Reminds me of a quilt, and I never liked those either. Or throw rugs with too many colors in them. Or paintings with colors that clash. I do like the top right one in post #26, though. But the other two on opposite corners are dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 But the other two on opposite corners are dogs. Top left and bottom right?? That could be because those 2 are very small. The top left is probably a little over 5/8" and the other is smaller (That's a penny next to it...) The top right and bottom left are closer to 2". The larger ones look "busy," but more in sync. So, it may be the tight space. It could be the pictures... Or, maybe they just don't "Do it" for you!! I wish more felt that way!! Maybe, if enough people read this and decide they don't like 'em... They'll be easier to buy!!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Ok,Im closeing my eyes,and hgutgyetrv rjikev rjpoviolc ehnjcf.It didnt work.I cant seem to type,"It doesnt make sense" with my eyes closed! When I say more,special,I mean it sounds like an ebay description,title.Ive used the term,"floating",for certain type of handmades with mica. To me,solid core with floating color,could maybe be a sub catagory name for a type of tri-level.Ive never heard or seen it used before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 To me,solid core with floating color,could maybe be a sub catagory name for a type of tri-level.Ive never heard or seen it used before. OK, I'll go with that.... Though, I think I'd prefer a sub-level of solid core... Griff, I don't think it's been used before... I don't think anyone really cared before. They were either viewed as solid core, or tri-level.. Depending on the observers choice... In a past thread, this topic came up and I was asked... If not a Tri-level, what would I call it?? Since these are distinctly different from what I've considered a tri-level... AND, they seem to be in a group of their own amongst solid cores... The question made sense. Since I don't really notice them and always simply considered them solid core, I took a second look.... Solid core with floating colors was what I saw, so... That's what I said. None of the handmade names were names, until someone said what they saw.... So, that's what I'm callin' 'em... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Yeah,Ok,must be a new england thing,I guess. Straw man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now