ID'd as 1850's Ghost Onionskin NEW UPDATE

[SequoiaBET]

UPDATE: I was at the local Bay Area marble meet today and several people there felt this is a rare ghost core onionskin from the 1850's. It has been polished, but they were quite sure it is from the very early era of German handmades.

1 day latter- It is a ghost core onion skin, not a naked core cloud as I erroneously called it last night. I guess I was a bit tired when I posted the update!

Another day latter- just to clarify, It was called a "Ghost Onionskin" (Not Ghost CORE Onionskin). I keep messing the name up for some reason. I did add some more info at the end of this post and am seeking clarification if others might agree with that concept, regardless of if my marble is one.

 

It was part of a larger group of Germans, but it looks different than any others I have seen. But I have only seen a few hundred of them , so maybe this one isn't that unique. The pontils suggest German to me as well.

It's 3/4 inch. And is it considered a cloud?

[Roberto]

Something strange, here..

[Chad G.]

Hmmm, the pontils are rough and pitted and the rest of the marble is mirror smooth, no makers marks or anything, something's funky !!  Someone has messed with this marble IMO. I believe it has been polished and an attempt at making it appear to have pontils has been made. 

[Roberto]

Yeah, even the colors don't add up for me....hmm

To me, he is a Bulgarian...

[SequoiaBET]

Thanks folks! It seem off to me too. I agree the colors aren't typical German and also the way they sit on the base glass seemed atypical too. Adding the pontils- interesting! Never heard of that!

When you say "Bulgarian", Roberto- what do you mean? If I remember correctly, I have read about someone making marbles a while back and claiming they were vintage Bulgarian from the 60's or something like that. Are you referring to that?  If so, any more details on the story would be welcome. 

It came as part of a much larger purchase, so it only cost me a few bucks. And it came with no claims about what it was or anything.

[Roberto]

13 hours ago, SequoiaBET said:

Thanks folks! It seem off to me too. I agree the colors aren't typical German and also the way they sit on the base glass seemed atypical too. Adding the pontils- interesting! Never heard of that!

When you say "Bulgarian", Roberto- what do you mean? If I remember correctly, I have read about someone making marbles a while back and claiming they were vintage Bulgarian from the 60's or something like that. Are you referring to that?  If so, any more details on the story would be welcome. 

It came as part of a much larger purchase, so it only cost me a few bucks. And it came with no claims about what it was or anything.

 

By Bulgarian, I mean marbles produced in Bulgaria, handmade by artisans, very cheap, mostly made of shabby glass and sometimes passed off as authentic German models.

Many of these are probably also vintage, so made in the 60/70s/80s, though they could also have just been made.

Some of them can even be cute, in my opinion, you just have to buy them at the right price, though..

[SequoiaBET]

Got you. Thanks for clarifying Roberto!

[Roberto]

You're welcome

[SequoiaBET]

UPDATE: I was at the local Bay Area marble meet today and several people there felt this is a rare naked core German Cloud from the 1850's. It has been polished, but they were quite sure it is from the very early era of German handmades.

Posted here to bump it back to the top, for those who are interested.

[akroorka]

16 hours ago, SequoiaBET said:

Posted here to bump it back to the top, for those who are interested.

I am interested but it is a very strange marble to be sure.

I suggest sending some images to 

Block's Marble Auctions

This is a fun one--but!! You need a good ID here.

Marble--On!!

[SequoiaBET]

1 hour ago, akroorka said:

I am interested but it is a very strange marble to be sure.

I suggest sending some images to 

Block's Marble Auctions

This is a fun one--but!! You need a good ID here.

Marble--On!!

Correction: it was ID'd as a ghost core onion skin, not a naked core cloud as I erroneously called it last night. I guess I was a bit tired when I posted the update! My bad.

Thanks @akroorka The local folks who did the in hand ID are trusted names in the marble community, so I am inclined to trust their ID. But I will send pics to Block too to see what they say too.

 

[Chad G.]

Not an onionskin. There is no underlying skin covering the surface of the marble. Onionskins have an underlying skin of white or yellow most usually but could be any other color, with any combination of other colors stretched from pole to pole, more than often than not paneled.. That's where the name "Onion Skin" is derived from. Not a Josephs coat, not an onion skin, can't be a ghost core since there is no core of any kind. IDK exactly what to call it but the roughed up and pitted pontils and smooth surface of the marble just are not correct, someone has altered this marble whatever you want to call it. 

[Roberto]

3 hours ago, Chad G. said:

Not an onionskin. There is no underlying skin covering the surface of the marble. Onionskins have an underlying skin of white or yellow most usually but could be any other color, with any combination of other colors stretched from pole to pole, more than often than not paneled.. 

 

I agree, they have more layers!  If you find a broken or highly polished one, you can sometimes see them go all the way to the center

[Roberto]

[Chad G.]

Onion skin with a white underlying skin and 4 panels of other colors stretched over the white skin, no colored core but a semi sort of ghost core, this marble was still over 2 inches from pole to pole, a nice marble at one time, but a nice example to keep around. A four panel, two of red and two of blue at one time before it was annihilated.

[Roberto]

4 minutes ago, Chad G. said:

Onion skin with a white underlying skin and 4 panels of other colors stretched over the white skin, no colored core but a semi sort of ghost core, this marble was still over 2 inches from pole to pole, a nice marble at one time, but a nice example to keep around.

 

Haha...It looks like a mouth with sharp teeth!

[SequoiaBET]

Thanks for all the input folks. I really do appreciate the help in trying to ID this marble. I think I added to the confusion when I said "ghost core onionskin"- I should have said "ghost onionskin". It has nothing to do with the core. I don't know why I keep messing up the name. My poor addled brain is really off this weekend.

I don't know if folks have seen the new videos by Jeff Baker and Cody Kemph as "keepers of the marbles", but they talk about and show examples of what they call "ghost onionskins". They feel they were among the earliest of cane-made German marbles, done before they started adding the "skin" that makes a traditional onionskin. They said they were almost experimental in a way that the makers were learning and soon discovered that putting that skin on made the other colors on top pop more. Those ID'ing my marble locally described it in a similar way. 

I'd love to hear if others have watched those videos and what they think about how a "ghost onionskin" is presented there. In your opinion is that a valid concept, regardless of my marble? 

[Chad G.]

6 hours ago, Roberto said:

 

Haha...It looks like a mouth with sharp teeth!

yes, i call it the monster

[Roberto]

9 minutes ago, Chad G. said:

yes, i call it the monster

👍👌