Steph

Hi Ron. I moved it. It seemed more of a technical question, not so much an ID question.

Also, the ID forum mostly gets machine-made questions. I used to move all handmade marble questions over to here. Now I leave some but this seems a rather specialized topic so I moved it over.

Onion skins>

Doh!

Hey Steve, you might want to talk to Gino. Seems he never remembers saying (all the types). Heck the thing barely has any slags on it. Peltiers main production for years. And some of us think the production of Citri was probably a little after 1931. I wonder if it is 1931 production marbles

Super artifact!

Seems like it could be a snapshot of marbles manufactured in the year it was made. Anyway, very cool.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

but he sure did well with that spoon, considering, don't you think? ( :

if you need mold drill some cherry limbs to the size you need make sure you keep them wet

Sorry midmo, I'm confused by the reference. Need mold for what? Did you mean this post for another thread?

New ones? They look old to me.

*sniff sniff?*

Hello Bob. Welcome.

I'll say a blend between riding the winning name, and going with accepted custom.

Glass marble companies did try consciously to compare their marbles to real stone - in what we would now call a fraudulent manner. However, "agate" had become an acceptable name for glass marbles in the 1800's.

I need to confirm the dates but I believe that by the early 1900's, real stone marbles were called "realers" to distinguish them from glass ones.*

In other words, "agate" was a name for toy marbles, whether made of stone or glass or even ceramic. And so it would be natural for someone who sold toy marbles to consider that as a possible choice for their company name.

*edit: and then even the name "realer" was co-opted by Peltier for glass marbles, but that's another story! lol

These are not my words but Galen's from the first page

:

A lot of folks can agree to a story for big bucks at any time and any place.

I'm just using the same rules as to those that have many people, not all, scared to buy these exotics.

Weren't citrus prices chump change compared to the money paid for exotics?

Maybe it's really true about the cullet & marbles being dug. Just after making the final good stuff, the rest was buried and dug up......in 2002. lol

mon

lol

So what's your theory on who would have had the skill to make them?

Steve, I knew that you had mischaracterized Mike's contributions on the board. For example, I had seen materials he had posted which you said he never shared.

I wondered why you felt the need to speak for him, especially about details which to me seemed to pertain very little to the Citruses. For example, why would a marble which looks like it was made from mid-1930's or later glass show up on an urn dated 1931?

Even if we don't have "proof", we have evidence with which to make educated guesses.

I will probably not change my quoting habits. I had a reason to focus on what you said about Mike's sources. The rest of your post was still there for all to see.

What did your last paragraph have to do with whether or not Citrus marbles and pieces were found at the factory? I don't see how including your last paragraph would have changed my question, or your eventual answer - should you have actually chosen to answer my question.

I think Migbar would admit that most of what he has learned about Pelt comes from two major sources. They are the contents of a safe to which he keeps alluding, but has never posted any of the data itself. His other prime source of info is a gentleman who was born and raised in Ottawa and lives a couple of blockes from the factory today.

That gentleman was very certain about one thing today. There is an urn that has "all known" (dangerous words) Pelts from the beginning until 1931 on its exterior. There are no green lanterns or citrus marbles on that urn. So, what do we know for "sure?"

We know that if the citus marbles were made before 1930 they were very short run or an experiment. If they were made after 1930, we have no proof of anything.

What does that have to do with whether or not Citrus marbles and pieces were found at the factory?

When Migbar says citruses were found at the factory, I believe him. I have yet to see any reason to question his credibility with regard to Peltish matters.

.

Yes! You are so right! After Al posted an original bag, it seems that there might be some continued controversy as to the color variations.

I thought that the bag Al posted contained marbles close to an inch. How large are citruses? Also, to me the stripings don't look very close to the typical citrus variations.

I waited to see what others thought and Mon confirmed my doubt.

My guess would have been that the marbles Al posted were made decades apart from the citruses. I would have guessed the citruses to be an older marble - say from the 1930's, and thus from the time when original packaging would have included mesh bags, not plastic.

.... just my hunch based on the general appearance of the marbles.

Is this thread pretty much cooked or not?

It seems to be going along just fine. Thank you for your concern.

WOW - great pix!!!!!

Just a stray thought. I don't really expect anyone to know .... but if you do .....

How were they made? How were the parts formed for those very first machines? I can't even picture how custom sized rectangular pieces would be made so I'm really flummoxed by the thought of how spiral rollers might have been crafted back in the day ....

I don't remember if I learned the name of the shop. The name of the machinist I was thinking of was George Murphy. That's given in AMMM's Playrite chapter. I've seen a little more info on the shop and workers there, but I think it's spread out between the AMMM chapters so I'll have to do more reading.

I phrased that wrong. I made it sound like I thought the marble companies made their own machines. I was thinking about them using local machinists. Lots of the 1940's machines seem traceable to one particular WV shop, iirc.

Tell us more about the Miller machines Peltier had. Also, I'm still fuzzy on what constitutes a "machine"? Rollers, tanks, feeders? Varies depending on context?

I want to start archiving again. Say, threads which are three months old or more?

If there's anything I move over which you were still wanting to add to, just let me know and I can move it back.

Also, you can add to things while they're still in the archives if you would prefer less fanfare.

Suggestions/reminders of threads to move to the archives are welcome.

Hi there, Rog. Nice tribute.

Hope you had good Christmas. ( :

Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280605750726

Good find, Mon.

I should have remembered where that was! The posts in the archives survived the storage crunch. Glad that one made it through.

Glass was big business - all kinds of glass articles. Miller had plenty to keep himself busy without and/or before branching into machines which made spheres.

I don't think there was the kind of marble espionage which you might be imagining at that time. The person who stole the designs from MFC was a trusted family friend and an officer of the company.

One thing to keep in mind is that much of Miller's emphasis was on how to feed glass into/onto the devices which would shape the final product. That was good for much more than marbles.

A possibly interesting question would be to track down the companies Miller sold marble machines to. That 1948 story specifically mentioned toy marbles but most toy marbles were made in West Virginia, and didn't most West Virginia companies make their machines locally? I wonder if Miller's clients might have tended to have more of an industrial bent.

For instance, from whom did people who made things such as fiber glass ingots get their machines?

I guess everyone needs to make there own decisions on that but it looks like miller was designing and modifing machines starting in 1911. I will read all this several time pretty slow going.Thanks again Stacy

Some additional dates:

I'm fairly sure - pretty much certain - that Miller wasn't making marble machines at the beginning.

Martin F. Christensen filed the patent for his groundbreaking glass marble making machine in 1902. Blobs of glass would be dropped by workers onto the machine, and the machine would make them round.

Akro was the 2nd company in the U.S. to use machines to manufacture marbles. They started making marbles in 1914, with machine designs stolen from Martin Christensen.

I assume that whichever marble machines Miller made would have been built with technology he learned and/or developed after 1914. Before that time, Martin Christensen had a pretty solid monopoly on the market.

To the best of my understanding.