Shamrock Marbles

Ahh, the Freese and Eyelash discussion! As Akroorka has so stated, the eyelash marks are the result of dulled/scarred shear-knives. The clearance between the opposing knives comes into play. May I also add that glass and environment temperature are also a factor (another discussion?). Slags were very early. There is a post on this site that discusses Akro Slags. In fact, it had an excerpt from a trade publication describing how these marbles were made. In a nutshell, they were hand-gathered out of a pot and hand delivered to a pneumatic shearing mechanism made by Miller. John Shamrock Marbles

Down the "Rabbit Hole"... A few things to consider: 1) Not all ideas and inventions are submitted for a patent. 2) Not all patent applications that are submitted are ultimately granted protection. 3) A patent can undergo numerous changes between the initial application to being finally granted protection. 4) The patent you see has the minimum information needed to convince an examiner and enough to defend the idea. (Notice there are no dimensions, references to speeds, etc.) 5) The patent doesn't restrict the assignee or the end user from future improvements. 6) Not all subsequent improvements are re-applied for protection. 7) Not all subsequent improvements that are applied for protection are granted by the US Patent and Trademark Office. *** US Patent 1,828,216 patent application date was 08/29/1928. The patent was awarded on 10/20/1931 with an expiration date of 10/20/1948. So, it took 3-years for the patent to be processed before being awarded. It would be very interesting to see the correspondence between the Hartford-Empire Corporation and the USPTO. Additionally, how the machine was actually running may have been significantly different than when the patent was granted!! *** The concept of patent 1,828,216 was to provide a regular sized gob of glass that has defined streaks of color to imitate natural rock (think "agate"). "To this end, it is desirable that the streaks or striations of glass of a secondary color, or secondary colors, shall be clearly distinct visually from the glass of the base color and that the lines of demarcation between the glass of the base color and glass of a secondary color, or secondary colors, shall extend more or less irregularly for substantial distances close to or at the surface of the article to be formed, thus causing the finished article to closely resemble the natural rock that is to be imitated." So, the concept of the spinning cup was to twist the column of glass hanging from the nozzle. They designed and built a mechanism that could: 1) Run at a constant velocity in one direction, 2) Run at a variable velocity in one direction, and 3) Run at a variable velocity with a reverse in direction. *** Along with this spinning cup mechanism, there was a mechanism that varied the flow of secondary glass to provide uneven thicknesses of the streaks. I want you to look at and think about the surface decorations on Akro Oxblood Lemonade, Akro Silver Oxblood marbles and Akro Oxblood Egg Yolk marbles. These are early (no pun intended) marbles and they are NOT consistent "corks" like "Snakes", "Tightlines" or later Akro "Corks". You can see in some samples how the stream reverses direction as you follow the color from pole-to-pole. But you can also see how the color decorations change in width (say from thick-to-thin and back again). *** The design shown in patent 1,828,216 has some weaknesses that probably became apparent right at the start and after continued use. To me, the dual friction wheels are truly an Achilles' heel in this mechanism. This device is prone to wear and would stop driving consistently. If the spinning cup quits "turning", you start to get "patches". *** There is another later patent that addresses this mechanism with a "better" drive system. It is this newer patent that I believe was used to make true corks. John Shamrock Marbles

The patent describes a mechanism that was used to alter the rotational velocity of the spinning cup, plus how it could be adjusted to reverse directions. If you synchronized the dwell between reversing directions with the shearing mechanism, you would get a cork in one direction. then the next cork would be the other direction. If you sychronized the reversal between each shearing action, then you would get a chevron (rams head) decoration. -John

I believe the "Dan" marble is a Dan Ambrose creation. I give this about a 90% certainty, but a 100% ID on the Stardust. -John

The "Star" marble is from Robert Livezey of Stardust Glass Studios. The "two" dots were to represent 200"2". I believe Rob did some study under John Hamon-Miller in Hannibal, MO. The original Stardust was in Chicagoland. Later he moved to Wingo, KY. Hope this helps. -John

A loss to the community. Met him for the first time in Amana. He had a passion that can't be replaced. -John

Great illustrations! What would be nice to know if the illustration and the furnace geometry were to scale. I speculate, no. What is not explicitly stated in the text is the exact location where colored glass is added. I would not expect this to be divulged, since it could be a matter of trade secrecy. What we do have from 25 is: "and could be put in different places in the flow-tank of clear glass." This tells us that the location placements were selected to give different results. -- One thing that has to be considered in the furnace are convection currents. These currents "mix" the glass and can alter planned outcomes. Depending on the furnace geometry (length, width and depth), heat source locations, refractory design, etc., there can be multiple loops. In other words, when you place glass in the furnace at far end away from the nozzle, it doesn't travel in a straight-line. I speculate the fill-in slabs are placed to alter convection currents. Probably determined from experimentation. Great stuff! -John

When making marbles, it is about statistical distribution of outcomes. The lawsuit documents discuss how Master added color to the glass without the benefit of a controlled injection like the Freese patent (Akro). What I have not seen are the visuals showing where Master added their color to the clear base. Molten glass has to behave under the laws of physics (thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, etc.). I speculate that the color was added in the same location at consistent intervals nearest the forehearth nozzle. The shorter distant will equate to lesser time that the glass is subject to heat and interaction with adjacent streams. I would expect that Master experimented with their setups and runs and noted outcomes. Those outcomes they liked, they reproduced. Placing a color glass further away from the nozzle exposes the color to longer heat time, which may result in changes to color intensity (dense opaque to translucent to totally disappearing), and shade shift (red to brown). Add two colors together and the more time they have to swim together, they can "blend" or "mix" together. The words "blending" and "mixing" can be trigger words. Especially when it comes to colors. Chemical reaction between two colors can occur at boundary layers. Consider the dark color between the blue base and red or yellow ribbons on a Peltier Superman. Here's a video to make you think: In the end, we don't know what exactly Master did to get their desired outcomes. Only "thoughtful speculation" is what we have. John

No, mechanical graining of plates is different. Graining is to provide a uniform rough surface for ink to adhere. A smooth plate would allow the surface tension of the ink to "ball up" like a bead of water on a leaf. The rough surface allows the ink to wet the surface and lay evenly. https://www.polymetaal.nl/beguin/mapg/graining.htm John

Ball graining printing plates: http://valeriesyposz.blogspot.com/2012/05/blog-post.html?m=1 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DZgY4w9e2GRQ&ved=0ahUKEwjnw__FltHiAhUEUKwKHZNVC5YQo7QBCC8wBA&usg=AOvVaw3BOc1mnXkHW-AU12xUZFbk John

Code word "Sorodeo".

Bump?

Fred, Welcome! That "pontil" mark looks like it was made with a diamond shear. The 1-1/4" diameter size is about the right size for a Chris Robinson "Road & Tunnel". However, without seeing it in person, I may be wrong. If Chris pops in, he would be the best judge of his work. Reference this thread: https://marbleconnection.com/topic/23119-rare-road-tunnel-slag-on-ebay/ John

Marian, Plan on going. Chad puts on a great show. There are many people that collect and sell marbles that do not post on chat boards. You will find many great people at shows that are willing to share their knowledge. It s nice for you to actually see and hold a marble to discuss and purchase (unlike online auctions). There are two presentation venues at most shows. During the week, people setup their marble collections and wares in their hotel room. It is fun to walk from room to room looking for that "something special". Then, at the end, everyone sets up in the hotel ballroom for an official show. Fewer things are on display, but it is a nice time to say your "good byes" and make one last purchase before hitting the road home. If you come to the KC show this weekend, you'll see many of the same faces at Des Moines. Bring a strong flashlight (hotel rooms are dark), a magnifying lens (for old eyes) and plastic calipers to measure (metal can scratch glass). The first show is very overwhelming. Each show gets easier as you meet people and get familiar with things. Wishing you the best, John

Photo by Zaboo. Marbles and Box by Bo Stiff. Bag by Sue Cooper. John

I can't say if Bo was the first, exclusive or one-of-many that made Micro or Mini Popeyes. What I think he did best was making mini Popeye Box sets. I believe Sue Cooper sewed the mini bags for him. Maybe Steph can find some photos. John

Alan, Thank you. I was hoping that you saw Dan Ambrose make them with a copper pipe. Like a personal witness to history. I remember hearing stories of people doing marble making demos in hotel rooms with carpet. I think those are the "good ol' days"? John

Alan, That is neat. Never seen the tube used before. Just to be clear, are you saying that is how Dan Ambrose made those or how you saw another artist make theirs? I've seen (and made) them using the cane/drip technique and murrini technique. Never used a tube. Bo Stiff made awesome popeyes. Maybe someone saw him make those and would comment. Thanks! John

My condolences to family and friends. Whenever someone passes, I like to read their old posts. It never fails to bring a smile. I got a chuckle with his joke about 4 marble collectors in Cambridge. Go look and enjoy his posts! John

Corundum mill balls are molded and heat fused for strength (sintered). The molding process leaves a ring around the equator. This ring wears down/off as it is used. https://www.unionprocess.com/grinding-media.html#nonmetallic This is just speculation, but I looks as if someone attempted using enamels to decorate the surface. https://thompsonenamel.com/ To make the powder enamel stick to the surface, it is mixed with a wetting agent to become like a paint. The lack of surface porosity of the ball mill resists the attachment or even spreading of the enamel paint. Hence, the splotchy appearance. Once painted, the ball is placed on a 3-point stand (trivet) and then quickly kiln fired. Or just placed on a kiln shelf with release or on a kiln shelf paper. As always, your mileage may vary. John

Like your other marble, I believe this is a Cuneo Furnace (Steven Maslach). https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/cuneo-furnace-handmade-marble-steven-maslach-16 John

This looks like a Cuneo Furnace (Steven Maslach) marble. I believe Cuneo is no longer in operation. They made beautiful latts with delicate features. Not only did they make marbles, they made eggs and hearts. Look for short marble canes with a semi formed marble at one end. John

Steph, I understand. You answered the question in a generic term. I had no difference of opinion to your answer. I should have answered that I agreed that it has a road and tunnel structure (design), but further qualified that it is not a "Road & Tunnel" by Chris Robinson. My response was more pointed to eliminate any ambiguity or speculation. Thanks for all your work! John

Chris, Thank you for the official clarification. John

General question: Regardless of the sales support story, if someone said that marble was 5/8" or 11/16" diameter, what manufacturer would you attribute? John