What Do You Think About These '' Fancy Benningtons '' ?

[Steph]

I wouldn't want these near my antique benningtons. I'm reasonably sure they are new. But I don't know that I'd recognize them as fakes if I ran across them on their own.

Compare them to these 1-inchers which Alan sold.

[akronmarbles]

Those are vintage Steph. They come in many flavors. Some of the ones Alan sold are actually rare and not common to find in the wild. The first ones you showed are more commonly found and represent the range of variation on these.

[Scoop]

Yup, I'm with Brian... I'd never doubt those top ones...

The only one I'd question would be the last picture, on the right....

I wish I had more info on this.... But... Many years ago (Probably.... Mid-1970's??) I went into the Bennington Pottery studio store... See the site for Bennington Potters This business is not the "Bennington" that the marbles were named for... Though, like the old Pottery, it is in Bennington, VT.... AND, they tip a hat to the old pottery...

Soooo, back when I was there... They had some "bins" of marbles, in 3-4 different sizes, that looked similar to the old Bennies.... Why Didn't I Buy One???

I don't know... All I can guess is... I was with several family members. I was old enough to have to pay for my own stuff, but I wasn't making a lot of money at the time... I know, on the same trip, I bought some awesome beaded bags at an antique shop... I'm thinkin', I just didn't have enough money to spare on them and... Having a ton of originals, I figured I didn't need them....... DUH!!!!!!! Just ONE would have been so good to have!!! It just didn't occur to me at the time.

I don't really remember what they looked like... But, I do remember there was one size that was VERY large... I think the originals went up to about 1½"? ..... Maybe 1¾"?? .... These new ones were probably 2" or 2+"... So, if anyone has any in that size, I'd bet, that's what they are...

I assume, they didn't make them for very long... And, the ones that were made have been assimilated into the general "Bennington Population."

So, back to that last one on the right.... The way the colors are splotched on just looks very different than any old ones I've ever seen.... It takes my memory back to that day and makes me wonder if it looks familiar? Or, am I just guessing?

:Sad_headshake_tweetz:

[Steph]

I have a good reason for saying the ones on top are likely new.

A seriously mondo good reason.

I'm not exactly "teasing" you. More like inviting response while I think of how to tell why I'm sure there's something wrong with them.

It's interesting to hear confirmation that they might mix too easily into my authentic collection. I avoided saying they were "scary close" to the real thing, because I realize "they're only benningtons", so they're nothing to get "scared" over. But they are uncannily close.

p.s. here's the flipside of the first set:

[m!b$]

Real or fake, I wouldn't buy any of those marbles in the first picture because they're too ugly.

[Steph]

lol

That would be one of the reasons that common rainbos -- and even mega marbles -- can sell better than hard-to-find ceramics. eye appeal wins out.

[Steph]

Let me put it this way ...

Has anyone heard of a barrel of these coming up on the market recently? Like in the last six months?

What are the odds that someone who sells mega marbles and Jabos in the vintage handmade category could have acquired a barrel of authentic old ones?

Now, this seller does seem to mix the occasional authentic bennington into their lots, maybe to give themselves an out when asked why they list as they do. So is it possible that they actually do have a barrel of old fancies?

[Steph]

Or is it at least in the realm of possibility that the reason that they have so many of the fancy ones, enough to sell in multiple biggish groups of bennies, and smallish groups of bennies, and sprinkled in all of their faux-vintage lots -- is it at least possible that the reason for this is that they had more success making ones with mottled colors than they had with single color blues and browns? Maybe the white base paint doesn't well up as much as their blue or brown does, or maybe the welling doesn't show up as much in white. Or maybe they can apply the colors and fire them in stages.

They're doing something different with their browns and blues -- roughing them up somehow -- possibly to deal with the puddling issues around the eyes. One of their more recent offerings:

This might be a mix of old and new, since the true benni brown seems hard to achieve:

Mixing 'em up to make faux vintage lots --

I have dozens more pix I could show there, but I'm trying to restrain myself.

One reason I have so many is that I've had several months to collect them. This is the seller I was referring to back in November, when I said I didn't mean to call anyone out in my tricky auction language thread but did have someone else in mind for another time. I check their auctions occasionally for reasons which will become apparent soon if you haven't already guessed what I'm heading for.

Still no names! I do have a seller I want to call out soon. This one ain't that person. Just wanted to vent about the slippery language.

[Steph]

If one buys enough cheap lots, one might get a few marbles which seem worth highlighting in smaller lots. These seem to be some of their best marbles. In other words, they really don't have a lot of quality mibs.

But these look dug to me, so maybe they really did have a contact who could get them an authentic cache of old fancies.

I still doubt it. Why buy when they can make? If the story they told us about their background was true, then I think may they have professional training with crafts. (an art teacher?) Before they were caught selling dubious benningtons, they were given negative feedback which alleged that they artificially toned coins to make them more attractive to coin collectors.

Here are a couple more big lot pix with what I can't help thinking are a couple more "experimental" types. The "china" and the spotty one? (or does anyone recognize them as the work of an established contemporary artist?)

[Steph]

We were introduced to this seller in December of 2007. Remember this one?

[Steph]

I actually may have enough to track the evolution of their mottled bennies. One of the first. I saved this pic in December 2007:

This might be a mid-range version, or maybe these are actually legit. I downloaded these pix in September 2008. As the seller pointed out to us back in 2007, she had bought quite a few real bennies on ebay ... at the same time as she was buying clay and glaze. (she purchased the clay and glaze shown in post #5 here)

Except for the tendency of their blue glaze to puddle, their blue benningtons were good enough to have believers even back in December of 2007.

These looked quite unprofessional though, again from December 2007.

Their brown ones seemed especially problematic for them. And I never did think much of their light blue shades:

or their greens:

[Steph]

At some point, can't remember when, I set it up so that I could receive notices of their auctions.

I guess I checked on them every month or two, so I may not have all of their gems, but as I said, I have quite a few. many more than I uploaded here.

So now perhaps you see why I have my reservations about this set. I suspect it's the style they did the best, and so they have nearly perfected it. My opinion.

My opinion, my opinion, my opinion.

The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of Lou, Sue, Invisionzone, the US Air Force, Department of Defense, the US Government, or the Audubon Society.

[semdot]

I see.

[akronmarbles]

Scary. Those look exactly like the real deal. Not hard to believe though when you think about the technology. It's not the most difficult process to replicate.

I remember the eagle one now - I always thought that was a fake.

[akronmarbles]

I will say that from the 'flip side' image you show - the color pattern for the brown does look odd on a few of them. Other than that, the way the first photo is presented still looks dead on.

[FIRE81]

Do a side by side and break them. Check the actual "make-up"

of the clay(s) that's being used. Another question would be what

type of glazes are being used.

Technical work....but if "these" are being questioned. One

might as well put them "under the microscope." Why not ???

RAR

[m!b$]

WHO are we talking about here???

[Steph]

The flip side is what gave me the idea about them getting around their paint puddling problem by firing these in stages. They couldn't seem to reach a happy medium with the brown. Either thick really fake looking glaze or the watery stuff. Looks sorta like maybe they sponged the thicker version on here.

And they may still not have been happy with that "solution". It seems as if they may have decided to go more with something closer to black. The Prince Albert can lot shows what may be the lastest stage of their evolution. It is the last they received feedback for. Here's an excellent side by side of how they seem to have dealt with the bad browns -- avoid the shade, or rough it up in this bizarre manner. Because this is better than puddles?

They're more affordable now than they were in 2007. A test wouldn't be that hard to do, assuming she lists again.

[Steph]

WHO

youhave2bid2win

[RJnew2marbles]

WowSteph, you sure do a lot of research. How do you find the time?!?!?!?!

[Scoop]

WOW!! The ones in the original picture have way too much white... BUT, I've seen 'em like that... As Brian says, they sure do look dead on... So, we let that slide...

Then, the idea of having a barrel actually makes sense... Could they have been experimental, or rejects?? A large group that all have the same oddity about them.... It's explainable...

Then.... When they are all shown together!! What a HUGE revelation!!!

I still find it a little funny that they are working SO hard to copy Bennies!!! But then, listen to me!!

I said myself that I went "Back to Basic" to get a design right... This is looking like a real progression and the lines of that yellow china show that they are seriously working on "Getting it DOWN."

Scary stuff.... But, having it so well documented really makes a lot of difference...

Good Work, Steph!!

[Sword44]

I've got some rock candy that looks just like those "fancy Benningtons". Try the taste test. Vintage Benningtons taste like Navarre's; the "new" ones taste like Peltier Patches. I've sold off my vintage Benningtons and replaced them with the rock candy "Benningtons" which are cheaper, look the same, and taste the best.

Roger

[MARBLEMISER]

Steph

I lost a couple of Theater Knives, that were made during WWII.

The last place I saw them was In my spare room.

I haven't seen them since.

Any suggestions as to where they might be???

Have you seen the movie ZERO EFFECT? there's a little of you in that movie.

JUST POKIN some fun..

Great JOB it always help's having someone

to have your back.

Keep on Keeping on.

I am always in awe or your research savy.

any ideas?? still l@@kin

marblemiser

[Scoop]

I've got some rock candy that looks just like those "fancy Benningtons".

Roger, were you just kidding? OR, did you mean these "Jawbreakers"?

These things are so cool!! And, freakin' HUGE!!!

About 25 years ago, friend of mine went into a local weekly antique show on a misty drizzly day and bought a nice box of marbles!! The one he thought was best was this huge cool crockery / china!!!

On the way out he was showing them to another friend in the parking lot... When they picked it up to look at it.... It was sticky....

Yeah.... You guessed it!!!

I think they were colored a little better back then......

[Steph]

Have you seen the movie ZERO EFFECT? there's a little of you in that movie.

JUST POKIN some fun..

I'll wait until I see it before I decide whether to be offended.

I've always had a soft spot for Bill Pullman though.

Steph

I lost a couple of Theater Knives, that were made during WWII.

The last place I saw them was In my spare room.

I haven't seen them since.

Any suggestions as to where they might be???

That's funny. Two knives mysteriously ended up in my posession with no explanation of where they came from. But only one of them was a theater knife. sorry.