Is This A Ringer?

[n2marbles]

Is this the real deal ringer?.....290301218815

Here's a LINK

Edited March 8, 2009 by Scoop

[feelnmarbleous]

Looks like one to me...

[Steph]

I would guess not a ringer. Serious question: were Ringer boxes ever 1 inch deep?

[mordiskul]

Nope not a ringer

[Steph]

These are an inch. That's where I'd put it without better evidence on which to base a different decision. you already know or can likely guess what the name on this box is.

[mordiskul]

I dont like corks but its an ace

[Al Oregon]

On eBay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=120387826264

[bigjohn691500]

how bout this one?,,,,bj

[m!b$]

I thought Ringers had a clear base, not a cloudy or translucent base. The one BJ shows could be a Ringer...maybe even a Popeye...?

The ones in post #5 are probably in an Ace box? Or possibly Ades, if they're UV.

[Steph]

I thought Ringers had a clear base, not a cloudy or translucent base. The one BJ shows could be a Ringer...maybe even a Popeye...?

The ones in post #5 are probably in an Ace box? Or possibly Ades, if they're UV.

It's a Moss Agate box.

Many do appear to be "Ades" -- of course many moss agates fluoresce. Box wouldn't say Aces tho' -- that's the Akro name we talked about a coupla months ago, the one collectors have borrowed and put on the moss agates corks.

[m!b$]

So a Blue Eggyolk is actually a Moss Agate, not an Ace?

Then what is the definition of an Ace, or is it just an erroneous name for a Moss Agate?

And wouldn't the marbles in the two links also be considered Moss Agates? "Ringers" on the box refers to the game, not the marbles in the box, right?

[bigtee0]

how bout this one?,,,,bj

hey, BJ, that beautiful. i've got a birthday comin up lol

[Steph]

So a Blue Eggyolk is actually a Moss Agate, not an Ace?

Then what is the definition of an Ace, or is it just an erroneous name for a Moss Agate?

And wouldn't the marbles in the two links also be considered Moss Agates? "Ringers" on the box refers to the game, not the marbles in the box, right?

On the last three occasions I remember discussing the Ace vs. Moss issue, you said I lost you, Kevin quit speaking to me and Brian's head started hurting. Are you sure you don't want to retract your question? :Sad_headshake_tweetz:

Okay then. Ace and moss are two different animals. Yes, to the best of my knowledge, the Blue Eggyolk was a moss agate to Akro. Ringer, nuh uh, not going there tonight! Here are Akro's descriptions of their moss and ace agates. This is going to hurt someone's head too. I editorialized some but I tried to let Akro speak for itself. There are a couple of things in Akro's descriptions of Moss Agates and Aces that I don't remember us discussing before. The "pattern" of moss agates and the size of aces.

[m!b$]

Thank you, Steph, for that bit of interesting info!

Based on that, my guess is that the two links in this thread show MOSS AGATES, not Ringers!

And an ACE must be what I would call an ordinary white-based, one-color cork.

[Steph]

The marble at the first link for sure Moss Agate. But Ringer is a collector's name which Akro didn't assign to any other marble, so if someone wants to use it for some particular type of marble who'm I to argue. Don't get me wrong, I'm curious about what name they might have been sold under, and really don't have a good idea on that. This version from Uncmikie which Scott pointed out here, the one which looks so much like a Tri-Onyx Agate. What would it have been sold as? Was it an error pop? Was it made on purpose? What was its name to Akro? Yeah, I'm curious about that, but even when we find out, it wouldn't interfere with calling the marble a ringer, since it doesn't conflict with any of Akro's own names.

Now, some of your "ordinary" white-based corks might turn out to be aces. Not all though and I think not most. I'd first check whichever ones you have in the 5 classic Ace colors. There are large versions here. If Akro ever did extend the Aces beyond the first five colors, the base from the original ones would help to identify the others.

The truly ordinary white bases would be Prize Names. White wasn't included in the initial color offering but the line was quickly extended.

(click for some enlargement)

Comparing Akro's descriptions to their marbles gives some insight into terminology of the day, how loose it might have been, or simply how different from what we say today. Akro said the Prize Names were opaque but I believe that some which were sold as Prize Names were slightly translucent. And their ribbons could even be transparent. The overall effect though ... for most Prize Names ... would generally have been that light didn't penetrate in any particularly interesting way.

The Aces are different, in part because they have what Akro called opalescence. (I know you don't like how they used the word but that's what they called it.) Trying to sort the red/white prize names from the red "Aces" would need some care. The red ribbons on the barely translucent prize names can give the marble an orange glow when backlit.

I still wonder which came first, the Ace or Pelt's Acme Realer. They can be so similar that I think one might have been a response to the popularity of the other.

(click to enlarge)

So ... is there any known advetisement for the Ringer Marble Set?

[feelnmarbleous]

Those white based Corks are not Prize Names IMHO a white based must have two colors to be prize names IMHO..

[Steph]

Those white based Corks are not Prize Names IMHO a white based must have two colors to be prize names IMHO..

How do I answer that? All I can think is to post this again, a little bigger.

That is Akro's catalog. Prize Name and Tri-Color are Akro's names. White with one color is a Prize Name. White with two colors is a Tri-Color. (So are other opaque bases with two colors in the ribbon(s), but that's another story.)

[feelnmarbleous]

So white counts as a color on a cork ? guess i need to list all my white based corks as prize names

[m!b$]

Ok, let's see if I've got this straight:

Ringer: As far as Akro was concerned, this was the name of the game, not any particular marble. However, collectors gave the name to clear-based (not translucent) corkscrews with wispy white and one other color.

Ace: White base corkscrew that has at least a little translucence, and is opalescent (very loosely defined) plus one other color.

Moss Agate: Corkscrew (not a patch?) with a translucent base (what color, always whitish or off-white?) that may or may not be UV(?), plus one (or more?) colors, and including at least a little (wispy or translucent?) white(?) Obviously, this definition needs work!

Onyx: Judging from one of the Akro letters shown, it looks like they called a slag, an Onyx, right?

Tri-colors: Opaque white base corkscrew (also patches?) with two other colors.

Prize Names: ????? Akro's own descriptions of these don't even match up with the marbles they show!! There is no mention of white in their description of Prize Names.

[Steph]

Ok, let's see if I've got this straight:

Ringer: As far as Akro was concerned, this was the name of the game, not any particular marble. However, collectors gave the name to clear-based (not translucent) corkscrews with wispy white and one other color.

Well, that sounds like what I usually hear. But has anyone here ever seen one with that kind of marble in it? Tonight I've seen pix of what appear to be five Ringer Marble Sets. (I suppose they could be come of the same boxes but with the marbles switched out. ;-). Two of the boxes contain popeyes and three have mibs which seem somewhere between cloudy and mossy.

If a box was ever full of the marble Scott singled out, then that would be weird to me. It's not a known type. So is there a missing Akro name? Or was there a run of error popeyes one day which were sent out in Ringer Marble Sets? If they came in different colors, that wouldn't seem so much like an error. So that'd be weird.

Ace: White base corkscrew that has at least a little translucence, and is opalescent (very loosely defined) plus one other color.

That's a good start. I like that together with, "And looks like it matches the known Ace examples". There's "something" about the texture of the base which stands out. I think it has a grain. Maybe not as conspicuous in general as the grain in Realers is famous for being, but the glass doesn't seem as smoothly blended as a lot of other Akros, translucent, white or otherwise.

Also, with a marble as misunderstood as this one, I'd want to be very careful not to overgeneralize. I'd stick close to the known examples for awhile.

On the other hand, if I'm holding a cork which has obvious fire in the base, I'm going to consider it nice enough to set apart, whether it is an "Ace" or not.

Moss Agate: Corkscrew (not a patch?) with a translucent base (what color, always whitish or off-white?) that may or may not be UV(?), plus one (or more?) colors, and including at least a little (wispy or translucent?) white(?) Obviously, this definition needs work!

Came in both cork and patch, and what seems to be a swirl. I'm not sure at the moment if the swirl is essentially a crazy cork or if it's more truly random. There are other colors of base. No need for whisps or white though, yeah, the cork/swirl version does generally seem to have greater numbers of colors per marble than the patch version. The patch version is what you are already familiar with.

That's the trouble with definitions. We define ourselves out of accurate i.d.'s. We could end up saying the person who made the marble originally got the name wrong. But some other marble made 10 years after the real ones qualifies by sheer coincidence.

Onyx: Judging from one of the Akro letters shown, it looks like they called a slag, an Onyx, right?

Yes, slags were called Striped Onyx. The red ones could be sold in the Striped Onyx box or in Cardinal Red boxes.

Then when Akro stopped making slags they kept the Onyx name for the corks made with white ribbons in transparent colored glass. The Cardinal Red name also survived the switch, but I get the impression it was discontinued before the onyx name -- maybe when they ran out of cardinal red boxes? (she asks half seriously)

Tri-colors: Opaque white base corkscrew (also patches?) with two other colors.

Tri-colors don't have to be on a white base. Do you see that Lifesaver in Dani's catalog pic? What modern collectors call "Specials" were Tri-Colors to Akro.

Yes, they came in both cork and patch.

Prize Names: ????? Akro's own descriptions of these don't even match up with the marbles they show!! There is no mention of white in their description of Prize Names.

The Prize Name description on the left up there didn't come with the picture on the right. Sorry I wasn't clear enough about that.

The description had the original colors. The picture was evidence of the expanded line. Mainly I wanted to show that there were eventually white based Prize Names and that those were different from Aces.

I think the description which came with the picture just said "two colors", with no specifics. Unfortunately the only copy I could find today was teeny tiny and pretty much illegible. If that's the copy I originally read, my eyes were much better then than they are now.

Akro did have many booboos in their ads though. The people who did the ads probably weren't Akro people. The ads are nice looking, very professional. I think some ad guy(s) at an agency may have had some sample boxes and a stack of old ads to use for source material. Maybe a few notes from Akro people. Maybe not so many samples and/or notes. Have you seen the Sparkler description?