How Much Clear Does It Take To Make It A Popeye

[marblemansion]

I know we have had this discussion before - but its seems relevant to now - anyone willing to charge headlong into ROFL

[roany poany]

Sellers and proud owners of wannabes stretch the definition of any collectable marble..... it helps boost the price and ego.

always have, always will

[Steph]

Can't vote. My answer isn't up there.

[Steph]

p.s. But #1 comes closest.

I don't care whether this mib shows any wispy white upon closer inspection.

I don't care whether this one has any appreciable clear.

If it came from a popeye run, I think it's a popeye! (lol)

[marblemansion]

p.s. But #1 comes closest.

I don't care whether this mib shows any wispy white upon closer inspection.

I don't care whether this one has any appreciable clear.

If it came from a popeye run, I think it's a popeye! (lol)

well based on the Akro ad we just saw in the "Its buggin me" thread - that box is probably backfilled with what collectors thought Akro would have put in a Popeye boxed set - when in reality Akro filled the Popeye boxes with all sorts of swirls - maybe even Moss Agate swirls

[marblemansion]

It seems that most think there must be clear and wispy white - which is the traditional definition.

[lstmmrbls]

I don't know about this box but it sure looks original to me. Why would they bother leaving a cracked marble in it if it was backfilled. I think that would be the first marble switched. I have seen many original Popeye boxes and the majority had popeye types in them.

[Steph]

I don't imagine Bill really thinks these would be backfilled. Not all of them. But Bill, in case you do, of course they weren't. Some popeye boxes, sure, but not all. Some had swirly/corky moss agates. Some had tri-onyx agates. LOL. Speaking of which, I guess I should rephrase my opinion: A Popeye is a marble from a tri-onyx agate run. (imho ;-)

Bill, I do think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater in your study of boxes and ads. Sure there are times to be careful, but we do have reason to believe certain things. And no we can't lay everything we know into any one thread. If you need to ferret it it out for yourself and not take our word, that's cool with me. I'm not going to keep arguing. I've stated my case. Can't do any more. I trust that neither of us is mad right now, and I want to keep it that way.

Back to the topic - I do think it's amusing that people wouldn't necessarily consider just any marble from a tri-onyx run a popeye. but hey, it is a collector's name. Funnier things have happened.

[marblemansion]

I don't know about this box but it sure looks original to me. Why would they bother leaving a cracked marble in it if it was backfilled. I think that would be the first marble switched. I have seen many original Popeye boxes and the majority had popeye types in them.

Uhhhh - gosh, do you think there might be a cracked one in there because Popeyes are kinda rare and hard to find in mint condition and a cracked one was better than none??? Such a possibility is not hard to imagine - therefore solid IDs from such boxes are not possible.

[marblemansion]

I don't imagine Bill really thinks these would be backfilled. Not all of them. But Bill, in case you do, of course they weren't. Some popeye boxes, sure, but not all. Some had swirly/corky moss agates. Some had tri-onyx agates. LOL. Speaking of which, I guess I should rephrase my opinion: A Popeye is a marble from a tri-onyx agate run. (imho ;-)

First off consider what a "boxed set" entails when the box is obviously used and has been played with....that means the marbles were dumped out of the box and the children played with all their marbles - the day ended with a very differnt set of marbles and maybe were put back or not...eventually Mom or Dad came along and cleaned up the room and re-filled the box and stuck it in the toy closet for next time to play. Finally this box was found years later and was donated to charity some collector bought it, sold it and resold it, traded it, ...and you want to believe these boxes contain the original marbles???? >>>WOW....<<<

I see some boxed sets where I read the description and the history of the set - where maybe the sellers grandfather was a Akro salesman and the box was a new from the factory - has been carefully stored for years - I see the way the marbles fit into the box and I can put some reliance on such a set for ID purposes - but those sets are extremely rare and usually sell for hundred sometimes going into the thousand range.

But that in no way takes away my envy of Steph for owning such a nice set - its still way cool and belongs in any collection - I just cannot believe those are original - NO - way.

Bill, I do think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater in your study of boxes and ads. Sure there are times to be careful, but we do have reason to believe certain things. And no we can't lay everything we know into any one thread. If you need to ferret it it out for yourself and not take our word, that's cool with me. I'm not going to keep arguing. I've stated my case. Can't do any more. I trust that neither of us is mad right now, and I want to keep it that way.

No - not mad - just very practical when it comes to IDs - you might call me stubborn - I don't like speculations. There is a reason that historically collectors have used the terms they used for ID-ing marbles - because that was handed down from previous generations who knew what the marbles were called when they were kids. To me throwing that history out based on a photo of a most likely back filled box is a tradgedy. I am glad you allow me to express my concerns without feeling like I am getting mad. thanks.

Back to the topic - I do think it's amusing that people wouldn't necessarily consider just any marble from a tri-onyx run a popeye. but hey, it is a collector's name. Funnier things have happened.

Yeah Popeye is funner to say than "tri-onyx" and collectors have come to know popeyes as 2 color corks with wispy white and clear...even though they might be wrong.

[Steph]

But that in no way takes away my envy of Steph for owning such a nice set - its still way cool and belongs in any collection -

Not my box! I wish! The pix came from a Marblealan auction. Sorry I didn't mention that.

Someone else has it which is why I couldn't pick those mibs up and examine them closer to see if this one has wisps

or turn this one over to see if it has more clear on the other side.

One more friendly chuckle at the thought of those maybe not being considered popeyes and now I'll clear out of this topic. ttyl :-)

[lstmmrbls]

Many of these boxes come from non-collectors and are original not backfilled IMO. I have owned several tins and boxes with original contents. They get a little damage from just opening a closing to show them off to the kids and grandkids. Or the original owner showing his special box he would never have played marbles with. Look at the bag. That has never had marbles in it. You think Hansel backfills all those boxes he has. Heck even 19th century solitaire games with all their original marbles are fairly common and in their original boxes. I just don't understand why one would find it so difficult to believe these are original contents It is only a few real collectors that would purchase and backfill and then sell. But back to the original question does it really matter. The marbles really sell themselves. Is there really any way to say what is or isn't. Who is going to say where the line is drawn and then everyone is still going to have their own opinion on a borderline mib. There isn't a whole lot of cut and dried black and white in this hobby, thats for sure. .

[marblemansion]

American Machine Made Marbles by Dean Six, Susie Metzler, and Michael Johnson lists Popeyes as part of the Tri-Onyx family and has a clear base - but it may have only a very small amount of clear showing with wispy white OR a majority of clear showing with wispy white in the clear....either way its still a Tri-Onyx - Popeye.

They would not be opaque though - if you put a light to them - the light would show through the clear and make them translucent.

[m!b$]

Those two marbles in post #4 look like Popeyes, or at least were probably intended to be Popeyes, but they are LESS DESIRABLE Popeyes, IMO.

That's as far as I delve into such technicalities.