CATS?

[Pinx]

Hi!

I saw these auctions and was outbid on the lot of the smaller marbles. I have lots of these foreign sparklers in the larger sizes and can't even give them away at shows. Which is fine because I love them. It's great to find aventurine in them. Here's my favorite. I bought it at a Texas show from Kalli's father.

Elizabeth

[jlmoriarty]

Elizabeth~~

Would you please show an end-on shot, or a 3/4 shot. That guy is a killer.

Thanks,

John

[cvdv]

cvdv,  are they hard to find overseas or pretty common?  what did you think of the price for the ones shown at the start of this thread?  post some of your favorites when you have time, please.  mon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here they are, my camera isn't that good, I hope it's clear enough, the large one right on top is my favorite, it's a very flatt ribbon with unusual colors. I,ve 3 kinds of these marbles: ones with ribbon, ones almost completely fulled with a colorfull core and ones with a sort of 4 vanes cateye. I also made a picture of a jar with other Dutch marbles.

Cees.

[GLSS]

Cee

I hate to change the subject But I'm Looking for a shooter in the orange and white opaque like you have pictured in your last shot. If you have a spare to sell, just let me know. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Gary

[cvdv]

Cee

I hate to change the subject But I'm Looking for a shooter in the orange and white opaque like you have pictured in your last shot. If you have a spare to sell, just let me know. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

  Gary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Gary, I wish those were orange and white, they are red and white, the flashlight made them look orange, I'm sorry.

Cees.

[GLSS]

Not a problem. I thought that it might be a color problem with the pic noticing that there wasn't any red in the picture at all. The search goes on!

Here is a group shot of the sparklers that I have managed to hang onto. I also have a 31/32 inch with aventurine but can't get even a poor picture of it for some reason.. These all are 5/8 to 3/4+ and most have either oxblood and or aventurine.

Gary

[kris7047th]

I find it interesting as to how many of us have these foreign sparklers and we are hanging onto them. John was right saying that this has been a fantastic thread, enlightening for all. I suspect we have generated a market for these after all.

Kris

[handymon]

cvdv,

thank for the pics! beside co. logos, oxblood and adventurine, what other things do you watch for?

is that larger spaghetti looking mib (bottom right of 2nd pic) a wire pull?

mon

[nutz4lutz]

Do the colorful foreign "CAMEL" boxes contain German Sparklers? What's their country of origin? Did the Saudi's make marbles? They DO have plenty of sand...and camels.

Bob

[cvdv]

cvdv,

thank for the pics!  beside co. logos, oxblood and adventurine, what other things do watch for? 

is that larger spaghetti looking mib (bottom right of 2nd pic) a wire pull?

  mon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes that's a type of wire pull, the European one, made in Germany, they are rather common here.

Cees

[jlmoriarty]

Okay here's my contribution. I found the seller's pic but I haven't found the mib. (It's here somewhere.) I'm guessing that it is at least 1 1/8ths. Sorry Cees, what does that translate to something like 27 mm?

Kris this is the one I was telling you about.

John

Edited November 27, 2005 by jlmoriarty

[cvdv]

Okay here's my contribution. I found the seller's pic but I haven't found the mib. (It's here somewhere.) I'm guessing that it is at least 7/8ths. Sorry Cees, what does that translate to something like 20 cm?

Kris this is the one I was telling you about.

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A very nice one John, I like the colors. What I like to know is: what is the source of the foreign sparklers you all found there in the US, is there also a link to Europe and maybe to France or Germany. If I read the item of Robert Block in Marble Mania and knowing that most of my marbles came from France, than you might think that they were made in France?

Cees

[jlmoriarty]

Cees~~

Those are exactly my questions. "The source" is just European. Not very helpful at all. That is, when they are purchased the lots are from Europe, sometimes called "foreign", sometimes German, less often Czech. I've never heard of the French making marbles (good cheese and great baguettes and the wine's not bad and the butter is outrageous!!! Sorry I got carried away. I'm in need of a trip.)

If the French made marbles they would have a law that wouldn't allow them out of the country. HA!

The German marbles are easily identified by their surface characteristics, see Elizabeth's marble earlier on. But everyting else is usually just referred to as "foreign". Most of the lots that are sold seem to come out of England (that's just a guess.)

John

[cvdv]

Cees~~

Those are exactly my questions. "The source" is just European. Not very helpful at all. That is, when they are purchased the lots are from Europe, sometimes called "foreign", sometimes German, less often Czech. I've never heard of the French making marbles (good cheese and great baguettes and the wine's not bad and the butter is outrageous!!! Sorry I got carried away. I'm in need of a trip.)

If the French made marbles they would have a law that wouldn't allow them out of the country. HA!

The German marbles are easily identified by their surface characteristics, see Elizabeth's marble earlier on. But everyting else is usually just referred to as "foreign". Most of the lots that are sold seem to come out of England (that's just a guess.)

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi John, even knowing that most of my marbles came from France, I still can't (don't) believe they were made there. I think Germany, but of course I'm not sure.

In January 2006, I'm going to Germany (Lauscha) for a short vacation, I'll see if I can find some of these marbles in that area and get some information about them.

Cees.

[jlmoriarty]

Cees~~

That sounds like a great trip. I have a feeling that the Germans will tell you that all the marbles in the world came from Lauscha and that the French couldn't make a marble if they tried.

I look forward to hearing about what you found out. It should be very interesting. Sie sprechen Deutsch?

John

[cvdv]

Cees~~

That sounds like a great trip. I have a feeling that the Germans will tell you that all the marbles in the world came from Lauscha and that the French couldn't make a marble if they tried.

I look forward to hearing about what you found out. It should be very interesting. Sie sprechen Deutsch?

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi John, jawohl, ich spreche sehr gut Deutsch, and I,m looking forward to that trip. If it's true what you say, I don't know. A fact is, that the Germans are very proud on their handmades. I'll visit the famous glassmuseum there, maybe they can tell me some. I'll take my camera with me and I'll try to get some info and pictures, witch I will share of course.

Cees.

[kris7047th]

Okay here's my contribution. I found the seller's pic but I haven't found the mib. (It's here somewhere.) I'm guessing that it is at least 1 1/8ths. Sorry Cees, what does that translate to something like 27 mm?

Kris this is the one I was telling you about.

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey John, Hang on to that one. It is very pretty with a great pattern. There is something to be said of these sparklers- no two are alike. Most are loaded with brillant colors and frequently oxblood washed over the surface or in a striped pattern. Thanks for putting yours up!

Kris

[Pinx]

John - The marble I pictured is at my office so I will not be able to get any more pics today. As you noted, it has a very definite orange peel texture. I have no idea of its origin, some who have seen it question whether it is Mexican. I don't know if I will ever really know, but nonetheless enjoy its beauty.

ELizabeth

[jlmoriarty]

Elizabeth~~

The surface texture (and construction) strongely suggests German. I would put money on it being of German origin.

John

[jlmoriarty]

Here is a group shot of the sparklers that I have managed to hang onto. I also have a 31/32 inch with aventurine but can't get even a poor picture of it for some reason.. These all are 5/8 to 3/4+ and most have either oxblood and or aventurine.

  Gary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gary~~ If you ever decide you don't want to hang onto those, please let me know. I love the red/wh/blue and the green base color w/ the ox stripe at about 3 o'clock.

John

[Pinx]

Here is a German bag that I have that I have heard referred to as German Sparklers or German Cat's Eyes. Is this the bag that you have Andrea? The marbles from the bag are similar to what Andrea described in her earlier post. The colors are more like lobes of distinct colors. The glass is smooth, not "orange peel" , and there are crimps at the poles.

Other "foreign sparklers" that I have are more "stringy" in the texture of the colored glass, with the color more variegated, as Andrea described. Then there is the one I showed earlier that has variegated color and the orange peel finish. Wherever they are from they are truly varied and interesting!

Elizabeth

[acraven]

We now seem to be up to four types of Euro marbles that have been called "sparklers" recently.

Type 1A: The first time I heard the term (I think from Paul), it referred to marbles like Pinx's single marble, which looks from this particular photo like the vane is very flat. There's a related variety that's strigier, with bulges (Type 1B). Some of that type can be seen in Jon's post at the beginning of this discussion, and in Andrea's example. Paul mentioned these two varieties and commented on which he found to be more common in England. Unfortunately, I don't remember which type that was! I've never seen an eBay lot with these in any type of packaging.

Type 2 "sparklers" are the marbles from the bags that Pinx shows in her latest post, which just look "different" to me. I think it's the coloring as much as the structure. In addition to Pinx's paper-header bag, I've bought these in headerless plastic bags (with printing), and there have been at least 3 eBay lots in the last 12-24 months containing 40 of these marbles in a "Camel" box, coming out of Germany. Two or three years ago I bought 10 or 15 of these loose, from a German eBayer. Oddly, I don't think I've every received one of these marbles in a mixed lot from Europe, nor have I seen one on eBay. While I certainly haven't looked at every eBay lot, I have to doubt that this type was widely sold at the same time as Types 1A, 1B, and 4, which I've purchased in mixed lots from a number of different sellers in (at least) Germany and the UK.

Type 3: An example of this type of "sparkler" is the marble John posted. It looks like about a dozen approx.-1-inchers I bought here in DC in the 70's at an antique store (I think). though they weren't sold or priced as antiques. These look more like traditional American cat's eyes to me than the first two types described above, though with lots of shading in the coloring. The coloring in mine varies slightly, but they're very like John's--mostly in the white-yellow-orange-red range. (No camera, thus no photos to post; sorry.) I haven't noticed these in eBay lots at all. Are they all 1" (or larger?). I'm wondering: Is it certain that these are European rather than early Vacor?

Type 4 "sparklers" are Euro marbles that remind me of transparent, very thready, Master sunbursts. Mine of this type usually have only one or two colors, mainly white and/or blue. Several English sellers have had these recently, sometimes mixed with the Type 1A and 1B sparklers (and other machine-mades that are obviously post-World War II). Kris's third photo contains two marbles that may be representative of this type, the green one at the 7 o'clock position and the blue one at 3 o'clock. The ones I have are about 5/8", though I've seen eBay photos of larger ones. I've never seen these in packaging.

I might mention that I traveled to Europe (including Germany, France, Netherlands, and England) in 1972, 1975, and 1978, asking about marbles at antique stores and markets and keeping my eyes open in toy stores as well. I found handmades in England and no other glass marbles of interest. I can't say that the various types of "sparklers" were not being sold somewhere at that time, but I never encountered them. What I remember finding in one or two toy stores (German or Dutch) during those early trips is colorful spotted clay marbles, not glass at all. Of course, I would have ignored marbles that looked a lot like what I knew from home--plain cat's eyes, patches, clearies, etc.

We seriously need a book on European machine-made marbles!

Ann Craven

[jlmoriarty]

Ann~~ I can add this one bit of information and that is the marble that I posted was in Alan's hands for a while and he positively ID'd it as German.

John

[Pinx]

Ann ~ I'm so sorry, I confused you with Andrea in my post with the bag. Thank you so much for the cogent synopsis of the sparkler types. I think I have examples of all that you describe and there are definitely differences between them. I also have some stringy, single fat vaned types in colored glass. BTW, I, too, have heard that Vacor may have made some sparkler types earlier in their history.

Elizabeth

[cvdv]

Hi Ann, you now made the confusion complete. But you are absolutely right, we need a book on European machine-made marbles, or maybe a book on machine-made marbles not made in the US. Sure, I like your CAC's and Vitro's etc. But there's to less information about other marbles made outside the US and as far as I know, there are enough of those to write a book.

It doesn't surprise me you didn't find not any seriously marbles here in Holland and Germany during the 70's. Collecting marbles was and is not as populair in Europe as it is in the US. Many times they laughted at me when I asked for old marbles, much people thought I was grazy. With the introduction of internet things change a bit. People could see that the marble was a serious collectors item.

The spotted clay marbles you saw were perhaps the dyed pottery (Birdegg), populair here.

Cees.