D A S Ram's Head Marbles And . . .

[ann]

Well. The first thing that comes to my mind, which can probably be answered by someone here who's seen it done, is how are these achieved?

I don't know, but from the ones I've seen I would guess, from the appearance of the surface, that it has something to do with the surface of the gob of glass being very slightly too cool before it hits the rollers? They seem to consistantly have fine cold rolls that follow / form the pattern . . . Or maybe the surface temperature when the stream hits the shears? Or both?

I don't know. And the few Pelts I have with that pattern don't consistantly have the same fine cold rolls, although some certainly do.

Wait. I could be lying. I have to check the Pelts tonight. In the meantime, all others chime in.

And that should be DAS, not Das. But I don't know how to change it up there.

[Steph]

Spaces added to get caps

[ann]

Thanks

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Its a cold rolled reject.

From what Ive seen,the strike glass isnt getting up to an equilized temp,as the base glass.

The base and strike will fuse together,but the strike glass,being cooler,prevents the marble from being formed properly.

Just my opinion,the strike pots need to be moved,back further in the tank,so the strike glass has more time to come up to temp.

Marbles are supposed to be round and smooth,,,,well,as reasonably round as possible.

[Shamrock Marbles]

Ann,

Are you sitting down?

Here is the answer in its full unadulterated blasphemy: The marble augers twisted the glass.

Yes, this is totally opposite from the widely held belief that the marble rounding machine does not alter the pattern.

Sincerely,

John McCormick

"Shamrock Marbles"

The above is similar to "crop-dusting" your Boss' wife at a company cocktail party.

Sitting back and eating popcorn.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Yeah,thats it.That explains it all,perfectly clear.

[Shamrock Marbles]

Griff,

Would it be fair to say that you have intimate knowledge of the machinery and various runs at Jabo, Sammy's and DAS?

John

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

I might know a little,,,,Ive been told,very little,but I find that to be usefull.

[Shamrock Marbles]

Fair enough, I wouldn't want you to divulge any trade secrets or violate a signed NDA.

Question 1: In all the years and runs at Jabo, how many times have you seen "Rams Head" marbles?

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Ive seen them produced,occasionaly both during classic and special runs.

In my observations,it has occured when strike glass was added,and the temp. dropped.

Id like to say,right before the tank plugged up because of the cold glass.

[Steph]

They're happening more now, right?

Intentionally, yes?

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

I dont know what Daves intentions are.

The results have been the same,at D A S,since he started running marbles on the new machine.A lot of cold rolled,rams horns and oddly mishapen marbles.

I can speculate that he is trying to get the rams horn pattern to come out smooth,but I feel the very reason it is being formed,is what is preventing them from comming out smooth.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Just wanted to add,Ive seen the rams horn pattern occur,at the beginning of the special runs,when the rollers were not up to temp. yet.

One that stands out in my mind was at the beginning of Dave and Mamies Veterans Day Run.

[Shamrock Marbles]

Just wanted to add,Ive seen the rams horn pattern occur,at the beginning of the special runs,when the rollers were not up to temp. yet.

One that stands out in my mind was at the beginning of Dave and Mamies Veterans Day Run.

Thank you Griff.

You proved my point.

My position: Once Dave gets his Marble System variables in tune (particularly the Forming Machine), he won't be making anymore Rams Heads.

Sincerely,

John McCormick

"Shamrock Marbles"

[Shamrock Marbles]

I dont know what Daves intentions are.

The results have been the same,at D A S,since he started running marbles on the new machine.A lot of cold rolled,rams horns and oddly mishapen marbles.

I can speculate that he is trying to get the rams horn pattern to come out smooth,but I feel the very reason it is being formed,is what is preventing them from comming out smooth.

The cold rolled marks are the result of the surface cooling quickly from contact with the Forming Rollers (Augers).

Once in contact with the Forming Rollers, the gob is "twisted".

Since, the surface has cooled, the glass has to "wrinkle" as it is twisted.

I wouldn't argue calling these cold rolled marks.

Once this surface is set, there isn't enough residual heat in the marble core to "remelt" or "smooth" the surface.

One could torch the marble as it travels down the augers, but heat and water from the combustion process will just rust up the rollers.

Fundamentally, the gob of glass is spinning on an axis parallel to the Forming Rollers and not turning on multiple axes as desired.

A witness to this is the number of "Footballs" or "Easter eggs" created.

Sincerely,

John McCormick

"Shamrock Marbles"

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Just to add.

Ive seen Dave run the marbles (at D A S),so hot,that they are still glowing red when they come off the end of the augers.They all stick together,once they touch at the end of the cooling trough.

I will assume this was being done to try and eliminate the cold rolls.From what Ive seen,it has not worked.

On the "Rams Horns",Im seeing the cold roll creases that are clearly defined between the white base and the colored strike glass.

This is what leads me to believe that the strike glass,not being in the tank long enough,to achieve an equilized temp. to the base.

This could be easily proven or disproven by running just the base glass,with no strike colors added to the tank.

If you can make a round marble,with no cold rolls,useing only the base glass I would look closer at the location of the strike pots.

If they still have cold roll marks,useing only the base glass,then I would place my concerns on the augers.

Process of elimination.

Yep,agreed,a 2 axis rotation does not work.

At Sammy's,I could produce footballs and eggs on command,by forcing more glass into the stream,creating a larger glob.This was done by feeding gold av into the stream(increasing the size of the stream creates a larger glob when sheared off).

Now this was on the "5/8th's"machine,that is less forgiving than the 3/4 machine,when it comes to an oversized glob.The oversized glob,forced the rollers to run the "marble" on 2 axis spin.

Trying to keep the language,simplified,for the general,marble persons comprehension.

[ann]

Ann,

Are you sitting down?

Here is the answer in its full unadulterated blasphemy: The marble augers twisted the glass.

Yes, this is totally opposite from the widely held belief that the marble rounding machine does not alter the pattern.

Whew. I was afraid to even suggest that, and I'm not usually intimidated by widespread beliefs. But in my head, where I live, I was thinking something like . . . "but it looks like a cold-roll pattern to me, and wouldn't the rollers do that to glass at a too-low temperature?" But then I am occasionally irrational, and this easily could have been one of those times . . .

And I did check my Pelts last night . . . only two of the five "yin-yang" ones had observable cold rolls (and they were not nearly as noticable as on the DAS ones) , and of the five multicolored swirls I have with it, only one exhibited an observable cold roll -- and that just at one pole.

Don't know what that means at all. Except maybe that the interior of the marble had enough residual heat to smooth the surface, as you suggested, John?