ann

I have not yet seen a Jabo or Sammy's marble that I would seriously confuse with a vintage one. How about people post pics of the ones all these "experts" are fooled by? I'd love to see them. If I could be fooled by them, I will absolutely say so.

And he didn't even catch it . . . jeez . . .

I'm sorry if a little irony is interpreted by you as a personal attack, Galen. It was not meant as such, no more than your little irony above, re the makers of these marbles, was meant as a personal attack against them. Or wait. Hmmmmm. Let me think about that. I suppose it did look to you like things in this thread were going so well until that short post of mine. Others thought it was going pretty well until you started posting. But that's the nature of the Beast. Of course, speak up on this particular topic as much as you like. Just keep in mind that a lot of us have heard it before and before and before, and to hear it all over again can sometimes be provoking, even to ordinarily good-natured folk.

Well, those many colors, color combos, glass types, and aventurines not used by vintage makers are exacly what the experimental and patron runs (at both JABO and Sammy's) were (and are) mostly about. So duh. As for the rest - sounds awfully familiar, you Knight in Shining Armor, you . . .

HA! So glad you found it! It's pretty eye-opening (fall-streak hole????)

Agree with wediscount about the top one -- the "cord-like" nature of the lutz bands (third pic) is something I've seen in a fair number of contemporary marbles . . .

Well. There are not that many colors (or color combinations) that weren't used by vintage marble makers, so I don't know how practical that statement is. But I do take your point about future collectors. However, I'm now old and cranky, and bellieve that they're just gonna have to study and learn as much (or more than) as we did. And continue to do so throughout their lives. And I don't think the "intent to deceive" future collectors is there. In some sellers, yes. In the makers -- I don't think so. Of course I could be wrong. I don't believe you were referring to the exact marbles pictured above, from Sammy + Dave, Galen -- I don't know what specific ones you were talking about. But in the ones picured above, I honestly don't see much that would confuse me in either pic, beyond not knowing whether the multiple points of light on each marble are reflections from the lighting source or "glitter" of some type (mica, aventurine, whatever). The only ones I would hesitate over (out of context) are the red/orange - white - blue ones that Steph mentioned, Individual ones might remind me of Euro swirls, maybe, or whatever the hell all those other marbles are that are those colors (Champion, Ravenswood, whoever). That's a whole class of marble I've given up on, for the time being. For the most part I think that Dave's old and new marbles have distinctive patterns and colors, although I'm no longer as interested in them as I was before the blow-up at JABO. Just because I'm seeing repetition of both patterns and colors. I was more interested when I felt I was watching something being worked out right before my eyes, and a great many marbles were truly fresh and new in both color and style. But that's just personal -- I've always been more interested in developmental phases (in history & art history) than in Renaissance and later periods. Everybody just has to make their own decisions. Including whether or not to think of anything they buy as being an investment. I'm an idiot except where it comes to certain (remote) periods of art, so I've bought nothing as an investment, although I realize I have some things I could sell if I had to. Like after I retire into poverty. If I have to eat dog food, I at least want to be able to get the kind that makes its own gravy.

Yep, that's a reasonable conclusion!

Yep -- that's what I call a "Lifesaver" color combo. In the one I was thinking of, the variant is the green having a little more aqua in it. And then I remembered you said it was a prize name, therefore only 2 colors . . . Some of my favorite Akros are those 2-color pastel ones Zaboo mentions -- I have a light green base with a thin lavender cork, a lavender base with a thin orange cork, and another one I don't remember the combo of, offhand - - -

Hmmm . . . are you thinking maybe of Akro's limeade? Also fluoresces under black light? More that color?

Is this the vibrant orange and green combo you're talking about? (I have a weakness for Akro cullet):

This is also true -- except the someone can probably be identified as Helmer.

I believe I know the color you're talking about -- unfortunately, the only pic I have is a small color-not-quite-right one of cullet. Maybe somebody will recognize the combo and post a cork pic. Took me some years to get 2 corks in this hard-to-find color combo. It's similar to the "Lifesaver" combo, but the (nicely-described!) "electric light lime-aqua" is very distinctive. Galen is right in saying the corks came after Fiedler's time at Akro -- his place was taken by an extraordinary glass chemist (Henry Helmer), and going by his recently-published secret "batch book" only a small handful of Fiedler's colors were retained. Virtually all of Akro's infinately varied colors can be safely attributed to Helmer. Here's the bad pic:

Yep, that's them! And kbobam, thank you for that site -- will explore!

I tried, but the pics I have, snatched off the internet, are too big, file-wise, and I don't know how to fix that. Maybe I could email them to someone who's more sizing savvy than me? Any volunteers?

For Winnie: No, not those -- the bullet-mold ones got away before I decided to bid on them, and even though I've been picking up stray Africa-trade beads here and there since the early 1970s (maybe that's too revealing . . . ) I'm not willing to pay what rabid bead collectors will pay for what they call "marble beads," even somewhat damaged ones. I only wanted a few as a curiosity and to puzzle over -- bead collectors distinguish between "made as marble beads" (much cherished) and "marbles drilled to be beads" (not as cherished). Mine are beat to heck, but serve their purpose. Still kinda kool:

And don't I wish it were mine.

Kool marble, Winnie! Haven't seen one like that before!

I believe the satin finish was achieved through acid etching, at least as far as the older (1960s) variety of beads were concerned, as opposed to the newer ones like Winnie showed. Don't know how the newer ones are finished. I know the tear-drop beads you mean. They're still making those in Czechoslovakia too. The older ones are probably from the 1930s, but I don't think they showed up in the Africa trade much before the 1950s, but I'll check. What Winnie said about the glass, too, with those. The glass in the older ones just looks older, especially evident in the clear ones -- kinda Kayro-syrupy, if you know what I mean. For a while I thought of putting together an 18" necklace for myself of the old clear teardrops with black stripes, but decided I'd be 230 years old before I had enough of them to assemble it, and gave it up after about 2 minutes careful thought . . .

Well, not considered Germany, really -- the larger (glass-producing) part of Czechoslovakia was Bohemia, considered a part of the Austrian (or Hapsburg, or Holy Roman) Empire, depending on the time frame. Germany was just another part of that Empire, for better or worse . . . I don't doubt that "bullet-mold" marbles were produced in Germany after seeing archaeological evidence for that, but I also am persuaded by the much more extensive bead evidence (and the trade in beads far exceeded the trade in marbles) showing that most were made in Bohemia. Probably a few in France and Germany. I can easily see machine-made marbles following that same track. Maybe in the same locations. Happened with the old handmades, too. Winnie, I agree the new ones don't look like the old ones, regardless of where they come from. There are some new-ish beauties made of satin glass (some larger ones too) that Alan B. thought were Czech and probably from the 1950s-1960s ( got a few from him), but there are also some pretty finely-made opaque guineas probably from the 1930s as well. I only have a couple of those. No pics. I thnk Roger has some, and maybe Dave, too, if they have pics. Not too much marble-making in the 1940s in central Europe for obvious reasons. Makes sense it would pick up again in the 1950s.

I wonder if they started making them (or at least started production of them) because the Czech ones were doing well . . .

So, do you mean that the marbles we've been calling Czech bullet-mold marbles (for a while) are actually Prosser-process marbles? It's been my understanding (possibly deeply flawed, I admit) that the Prosser method was much more mechanized than the hand-pressing I saw on the (great) video you attached -- and, that at least as far as beads were concerned, very few Prosser ones were made in Germany; most of those appearing on German bead sample cards (from approx. the 1930s) were actually made in France or Bohemia (Czechoslovakia). It's a revelation to me that at least some of these marbles, whether bullet-mold or Prosser, were actually made in Germany, Ronny, please let me know when some go up on ebay. I'd love to have a few.

And one of his $$$$$ Christensen flames is an Alley Pistachio . . .

Nice box, Charles! And I think you're right, Steph -- colorwise, at least, yours looks like the ones in the Opal Agate box. Who has that? Or who knows whether or not Opal Agates fluoresce? I don't have a clue . . .

Hi migbar. I agree with the uncertainty. 1927 seems to be the year when everyone was switching from hand-gathered to machine-made. So I'd guess they could be either. Or both. Made either before and/or after the change-over. Anybody have one? Or one they think might be one?