Steph

This is another idea I've been wondering about:

Who knows, perhaps while setting up the machines at Sistersville for the first time all patches came out until the adjustments were made to produce pure swirls.

Oh perty.

I am sooo on the fence about these.

Here's one idea I'm playing with currently. Why were those machines busted up in Ravenswood? Could it have been patch-making machines? Would swirl machines have been enough to bring in lawyers or cause such ire? Patches were the new thing. Maybe that's the patent/investment which someone was trying to protect. Could it have been?

I liked being able to potentially credit Alley with some of the oddballs which paraded by. I'll hunt a couple of those up. You know - the kind which looked they were made by 3 different companies in turn. Maybe started out at Vitro, but using Akro glass, and then someone else went and added an extra stripe of color just to throw us off the scent. You know the ones I mean! lol

And I really wanted some of the mibs in Rosenthal boxes to be Alleys. Supposedly there's an odd shade of green on one of the moss agates from Sistersville. It's mentioned in AMMM. At the time of that writing it was not known to be associated with any other company.

I so very much wanted Alley to have made patches. :-)

well that's confusing

I'm still working on getting more of Ron's up. In the meantime you might enjoy these which Sandy and her family dug from the Alley dumpsite in Sistersville.

(click to enlarge)

The base here looks kinda white to me in the pic, but it's gray in hand. It glows.

(Dustin's auction pic, my mib)

Joe did a good job of catching the gray and the inky blue ribbons in his pic. I'll bet this one glows - hmm, I'll bet a dime.

(click pix to enlarge)

<--- look for pelt in this pic

Gonna start uploading Ron's pix now. There are lots of them. So keep on having a good time over there in the WV swirl thread. I'll be awhile.

I'm posting pix 40% to 60% of Ron's originals. If you need the bigger views of some, that can be done.

Here's Ron's introduction to the photo collection, containing some history about Lawrence Alley, and some things to make you think.

All recovered from the Sistersville WV,Lawrence Glass Novelty Company location.

If you look through the pictures close,you will notice. A half marble with a white base,red swirl Alley with what most consider gold lutz. This is not copper,it looks and reflects as gold. You will see a Peltier marble. You will see CAC cullet. I think you will see various Akro patches,plus a white and orange cork. Many more varieties of swirl type marbles than most thought originally. Some yellow base,red/orange swirl-flames. Different green/blue patch marbles with the vaseline colored base. A couple marbles with similar to oxblood stripes. Plus more odd out of place pieces.

This brings up the questions,how,why,did the items presumably from other marble companies,be found at the Alley factory. Do not forget the time frame was late 1930-31. Also that in late 1929 Lawrence Alley went to Ravenswood WV to make the first marbles for the Ravenswood Glass Company. The Ravenswood Glass Co. equipment was destroyed by a group of men with sledge hammers,etc. who had traveled there in two cars. The reason being stated as patent rights infringement. Being fearful and uneasy Mr. Alley left Ravenswood in 1930 and started a marble plant in Sistersville WV. With Berry Pink being a major purchaser of his production.

But the Alley Sistersville WV marble production was also short lived. Berry Pink left Mr. Alley but to return some years later. In late 1931 or early 1932 Mr. Alley moved again,this time to the Pennsboro WV location.

With all the out of norm marbles and cullet presumably from other marble companies found at Sistersville. A possible theory could be that Mr. Alley never produced a patch type marble. He left Ravenswood in a hurry and without delay started the Sistersville factory. With the road system and transportation issues in 1930,it was not easy to acquire glass cullet for marbles. Is it possible that Mr. Alley was getting cullet from any place possible. From other marble companies or through local cullet distributers,probably just south of Sistersville in Williamstown WV.

Did Lawrence Alley produce patch type marbles ?

100% of my presumed koko's fluoresce noticeably. Not brightly but noticeably.

(please do not ask me how many I have ;-)

I wonder if the patent was in the category of "design". Maybe the simple lines were the innovation.

"Design patent" at Wikipedia

If so, I don't know where to search for it. I found a design patent today for something else pretty quickly but I got lucky in the clues I was given. I don't know where to hunt for designs by date. [edit: I might have figured out how to hunt for designs by date, but I haven't hit on yours yet.]

Oooph! I'd take 'em for that! Here's that link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280518074326

Here's what I learned in response to the email S.O.S. I sent out about early marble ads:

In the first decade of the 1900's, the gold-colored marbles were referred to by such names as "Klondike Gold Nugget" (1903) and "Genuine Glass Klondike" (1904). In German the spellings included Klondiche and Klondyche.

In the early 1910's, U.S. and Canadian advertisements included descriptions such as "Fancy Gold Band Marbles", "Gold Band Alleys" and "Fine Gold-Band Glass Marbles". The name Klondike was still in use by German marble makers at that time and later.

In the 1960's [edit: and 1950's] they were being called "Sandwich Glass Marbles". And this may have been the time when the term Lutz came into use [edit: for marbles], because of the supposed Sandwich Glass connection. [Edit: Baumann records the first known use of the word Lutz for marbles as 1968.]

edit: "Lutz glass" was in use for collectible items from the Sandwich works by at least 1939. That's not marbles though.

[i'm still digging so this post might get more edits.]

That's the basic story I've heard most often. However, there's a competing explanation for the name - that it was a misspelling of Loetz.

A little about Loetz:

Loetz was the premier Bohemian art glass manufacturer during the Art Nouveau period (or Jugendstil, as it was called in German-speaking countries) from roughly 1890 to 1920. Founded in 1840 by Johann Loetz in what is now the Czech Republic, the company became known for its innovative techniques, organic forms, and bold use of color.

Source: About Antique Loetz Art Glass

And here's a link Galen posted before with some sparkly pictures. Loetz: Tiffany twisted, the Mercedes bends

Here's a brief version of what I've typically heard on the subject.

http://www.kovels.com/priceguide/kovels_lutz/

Is that accurate? It doesn't mention gold-looking glass there. Did he use it?

When was the name "lutz" popularized for glass, and when did it start being used for marbles?

Thanks!

edit: I vaguely remembered some sort of dispute about the name, and now I remember I've asked about it before. Now trying to digest the material presented when I asked before. But will leave this question here.

"I think we're diverging from the topic a bit"

lol, yeah I guess we are.

If you give me a minute, I could try to tie it into the original topic. ;-) But the truth is I think it's an interesting question in its own right.

The story I've heard is that lutz glass was named after a glassmaker named Nicolas Lutz who made it in the late 1800's. Don't know if that was true. I remember some dispute somewhere. But I can't remember the details.

Sue?

p.s. started a new topic. I don't mind hijacking my own thread (lol) but don't want to hijack Ron's marble. :-)

I don't remember the name lutz coming up in any marble ads I've seen. My general impression was that it was relatively recent though older than Jabo! lol

I know someone who has seen a lot more ads than I have, and translated some from German. I'll send him a note to ask.

edit: Klondike is one of the names they used to use for lutz.

edit 2: Baumann gives 1968 as the first known time the word lutz was used to describe marbles.

I was vaguely hoping it was the kind of gold which has been used to make red glass.

Keyword "vaguely". I've only heard of the gold glass. Don't know how or when it was made or what form the gold looked like going in to the mix. I guess it seems far-fetched for gold to be used during the depression to make kids' toys.

Dug Champions

More of Ron's Sistersville Alleys:

(click to enlarge)

I have his whole disk full of Sistersville pix which I want to put in their own thread, but I'm trying to wait until this one gets up to 100! .

Most? I cannot say.

Ron said it is not copper. He said it looks and reflects as gold.

I put this one in the WV swirl thread but it really deserves a special mention. Machine-made with lutz. Date estimate: 1930-31. Photo compliments of Ron. This marble was found at the Sistersville WV, Lawrence Glass Novelty Company location.

(click to enlarge)

I think it might only be half a marble but sssshhhh, pretend not to notice. :-)

Here's one for the books. Machine-made with lutz. Date estimate: 1930-31. Photo compliments of Ron. This marble was found at the Sistersville WV, Lawrence Glass Novelty Company location.

(click to enlarge)

Gorgeous!

Can you make out the date? I have seen some U.S. patents for casters at google. quick example

Have also seen a site for foreign patents, but haven't had much luck searching there so far.

Does the marble roll freely?

lol - great effect actually!

like a cliffhanger

oh yeah, almost forgot, sweet mibs!

big ones!

Bottom right has been presented as a koko combo.

All look good to me. (fwiw!)