Marbles Over Mahem? Anyone?

[marblemansion]

I have been on many many boards and hosted my own for several years, so I kinda know what Lou (and Steph) are up against.

I also have been that guy that instigated lots of stupid arguments over nothing and felt I had to prove something.

(Sorry all)

At the time it seemed great to argue on the board - although I think that boards like this allow things to get said that might never get said in a face to face conversation or in a real public setting.

I just wondered what others thought.

If Lou thinks my poll is inappropriate - feel free to delete it.

[zigafoose]

I would call it Fight Club.

[marblemansion]

squable zone - fight club - seems to be the desired method over banning - I guess everyone likes to view a good fight - name calling and all.

[zigafoose]

It doesn't count but Im tossing in my 2 cents.

When a thread goes off track and needs move to "squabble zone" can you creat a duplicate thread and add it to SZ? I ask because some good threads go off and it would be a shame to move a whole thread that then maybe over looked my some people.

Or maybe take out the individual posts and move those to SZ?

[feelnmarbleous]

although I think that boards like this allow things to get said that might never get said in a face to face conversation or in a real public setting.

Keyboard cowboys, they turn into internet tough guys..

[sissydear]

I don't like any of the options you gave us to choose from, marblemansion. Having been a High School Principal, I want the rules followed. I would be more strict. As soon as the personal attack post is noticed by a mod, it should be made invisible and the offending party should get a warning. On the second offense, I would suspend chat board privileges to the offending party for 2 weeks. If they chose to do it a third time...... goodbye. The rules say no personal attacks are allowed. We are not children. We should all be able to follow the rules or forfeit the privilege Lou gives us to take part on the board. Edna

[feelnmarbleous]

i agree and i choose

Over mayhem any day !

[Scoop]

Zig... Yes, I believe that can be done.... I'm not sure... But, I think I've split posts before...

Edna!!! ..... You know I love you and I don't want you to be mad at me for this.... BUT....

The board that Lou & I origially became mods for, in order to save it, was originally called "Say Your Piece / Peace" (I always get that wrong and I can never remember which is right...)

The original format HAD NO RULES!!!! We didn't need rules!!! We're all adults.... WTF do we need rules for?

Let's face it, there isn't a SINGLE person here who doesn't know what should be in those rules... If you think you need to look and see, your probably treading on thin ice... But, since the rules never seemed to keep anyone from treading on thin ice before?? Why bother??

The whole point of the board was based on people being able to say what they felt without having to worry about being deleted, censored or bashed...

Well... It's inevitable that with that format, at some point, some bashing has to happen.... That evolved into the scenario that Alan couldn't keep up with the bashing and 3 mods stepped in....

OK, so now we have rules.... I've seen things done that were technically within the rules, but should be edited...

Then, I've seen things that were against the rules (Like Brian's nekkid guy) that are just plain funny, intending to break ice and make people laugh....

I've used that picture before in a past post, long ago (it's in my "funny stuff" file...) and it would never.... EVER.... have occurred to me that it was not appropriate... (And yes, I AM calorically challenged...)

We obviously have some strong personalities here that occasionally rub each other wrong... I haven't seen a single person on this board for ages that should be banned... But, there will always be some who push buttons... It doesn't mean they don't have valuable things to say.

Sooooo, maybe.... If we all work hard at trying to NOT be offended...

Maybe try to REALLY understand what the other guy is trying to say, rather than slamming him for it....

NEVER respond to a post in anger, without waiting at least an hour...

And... Possibly, TRY not to piss anyone off....???

Those seem like the only rules we should really need, yes??

Or, am I just ??

[marblemansion]

I don't like any of the options you gave us to choose from, marblemansion. Having been a High School Principal, I want the rules followed. I would be more strict. As soon as the personal attack post is noticed by a mod, it should be made invisible and the offending party should get a warning. On the second offense, I would suspend chat board privileges to the offending party for 2 weeks. If they chose to do it a third time...... goodbye. The rules say no personal attacks are allowed. We are not children. We should all be able to follow the rules or forfeit the privilege Lou gives us to take part on the board. Edna

Your idea sounds good to me - since polls of this nature have a limited nature to them - I think your idea falls closest into the "members making such posts should be temporarily banned after 2 warnings" category with your stipulations attached in a post - its the closest match.

thanks for the input....it does seem that most would rather have the offensive post moved rather than deleted and the offender banned. apparently a majority like to watch a good fight - and might even feel that some day they will be in the participating end of such a fricas - and therefore do not want the system to catch up to them.....

[Scoop]

Please let me add...............

I want the rules followed. I would be more strict.

The nature of this board has been questioned many times... Some say the "freedom" of speech is too much, too rude... Others have come in with the complaint that children read the board and that should be taken into account....

There are several marble boards... Each created for it's own reasons. They survive in the same manner as religions survive. Each has a format and policy to match the personalities of it's members...

When censoring questions have come up at this board in the past, people were usually directed to Marble Mental

I consider Marble Mental a "Sister Board." It was created by past members here, who wanted more structure and censorship. A place where any form of unpleasantness is not tolerated....

Oddly enough, it's on it's third administrator, due to some very EXTREME unpleasant behavior. I think it has finally found the perfect admin. in Elizabeth.

Rather than our board taking on more, stricter, tighter rules, I'd like to see The Connection and Marble Mental work more closely to accommodate the personalities they were designed for.

Topics have often been linked from one to the other.... (In some cases, with a content warning... LOL)

[sissydear]

I wasn't clear enough when I posted yesterday about "I would be more strict, etc.". All of my remarks were referring to the board rule that NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE ALLOWED.

Personal attacks have been rampant and that's what I don't enjoy. Either enforce the rules or do away with them. No one should be allowed to accuse, insinuate, make up stories, etc. especially when they aren't true. If anybody wants to accuse, etc. let them do it in private. Let it be between the two parties involved, NOT ON THIS BOARD.

[sissydear]

I inadvertently hit the post button and I wasn't through. I wanted to add that I come here to talk about marbles..... not religion, not politics, and not trashing others. I do admit I was pretty rough on Galen. Galen was telling falsehoods on another of our members and he could not or would not stop. If we are allowed to trash people here, do personal attacks on people, then tell us that's allowed and I'll move on. Edna

[Steph]

There are problems with interpretation, problems with form, problems with delivery, problems with determining the right punishment for the "crime".

Some people are subtle in their attacks, yet so insidious about them that the results are more painful than when attacks are direct. Probably most people are more sensitive to the digs made to themselves and friends than they are to those made at others. Sometimes there hasn't even been a dig, honest to gosh hasn't been a dig, but it's been felt anyway.

Who decides what is an attack and what is self-defense? When has self defense gone too far?

So much gray area.

so much need for patience.

This is one reason I like the buffer zone idea. People might not appreciate being called squabblers but at least they still have a chance to talk things out.

[mswitzer3]

Isnt this the place for that? My link

[Steph]

LOL. Some of us wouldn't be welcome there. Some of us would find it too rough even though we crave a chance to vent. There have been times I toyed with the idea of applying for asylum, but then I went to my more warm fuzzy board and vented there. (lol)

Here's a thought question.

Suppose someone misrepresents marbles on ebay in a chronic and seemingly intentional way. If that person were not a member of the board they might be roundly criticized and buyer alerts might be posted about them.

What if the person is a member of the board? Is it an attack to criticize the member in the same way one would if he were not a member?

[feelnmarbleous]

Isnt this the place for that? My link

Allowing people like this on the board is just going to cause problems, it's the worse decision ive seen made yet, some people may shrug it off, i don't, i took a lot of things said there personal especially when most of it was all lies...

This place has gone so down hill......

btw that post was for anyone here to click the link so they could bann you and then talk crap knowing you can't defend yourself..

[Scoop]

Edna says...

If anybody wants to accuse, etc. let them do it in private. Let it be between the two parties involved, NOT ON THIS BOARD.

And, I'm 100% behind that... I really can't imagine why anyone would want to air laundry out on a chat board...

..... Unless.... It effects the community in general...

There have been many cases in the past where the discussion needed to be aired out.

What I really hate to see in those situations, is the random comments from uninvolved people, that either pull them into the fray, or add fuel to a fire that just doesn't need any more accelerant... Sometimes, that fuel burns up progress that may have been made...

Supporting a friend in an argument generally just drags the argument out longer...

In that case, I think it's important for the uninvolved person to stop and seriously think, "Does my comment REALLY need to be heard, here??" and "Is it constructive?"

I really don't believe there's a way to carve solid rules that will cover every situation perfectly... That's what makes "The Rules" so useless...

Along the lines of what Brian said in the "What makes a good moderator?" thread....

The real answer is WE DO. We make good mods because we need to control our actions and then we will never need their reactions.

"Be Your Own Personal Moderator".... Hey that could be a song!!

[mswitzer3]

Isnt this the place for that?My link

I have not been banned.

[duffy]

this board is a shadow of itself of the 7 years ive been comin here....theres only a handful of the posters left...definatily less than 25...its really fell in the last couple years....excessive postin and people tryin to get the knowledge out of folks that took many hours of discussion at marble shows-meetings and personal get-togethers...then takin the learned info and turnin words around so that its the same answer---but asked in another way...it haint rocket science people...its suppossed to be fun--- not a contest of whose the smartest or the most prolific reasearcher or the person with the most extensive or expensive collection....i dont go to columbus anymore cause i heard one of the christensen collectors say in the hall -- who in their right mind would bring marble king to the higher end show???? it was a riker case with a watermelon --green hornet---dragonfly and others....after i asked him if he ever had a scum-bag marble king collector kick his ass , his comment was he didnt know he was talkin so loud...lolol....we laffed it off but i told him i wouldnt be back-and i haint since....then the infamous joker run when the decievery and underhandeness came to the head...the post came so fast about who was the best author ...whose book was best...some books haint even been written yet...people were plied with marbles to make untrue statements then when they were called out on it edited their posts to make the the person callin em out look like they were attackin em...that was really the downfall...but it all boils down to jelousy....people overhyped the first few of those jabo marble runs to death and folks just turned em off....but my advesary galen was oblivious to anything but his mission....and the tone of those posts slipped into others and many collectors b.s detectors just exploded....i would think that if ya got a couple thousand posts in a year your kinda over exposin yourself.....and here like in life the squeeky wheel gets the grease...thick skin???or thick skull???i would say in most cases the pm portion of the board would be where to stick those excessive id question since the best iders wont touch em anymore....and in essence theres only a small portion of collectors even put up with these boards to start with....weve run lots of em off....with this crazy stuff that you coulda figured out yourself....

[mswitzer3]

:happy-857: Now thats funny!

[marboman]

Hey,was the squabble zone a choice when I voted?I vote for the squabble zone.As far as marbles over mayhem I will just say I post alot of marble pics,and enjoy seeing marbles and marble related storys over the mayhem on the board latley.I think the word "attack" is over generalized to mean anything that is in dissagreement to a particular few people who post here.If somebody want's to follow someone around pestering and correcting and finnally calling them names such as stupid,idiot,fool,then the person being singled out should have every right to defend themselves as they see fit.This is America!

[Steph]

Yeah, Bo, you should have that right. But the reality is that when someone invokes that right, the crap escalates.

I "love" it (NOT) when the stalkers don't use names. They're being cowardly, mean, passive-aggressive, whatever your favorite psychobabble word is. They're setting a frickin' trap and when you respond, it gets them off.

If you do something similar to what they do (for instance in my case now, not naming names) they'll call you a hypocrite and say you are the offender. But if you used their name, they'd complain about something else. For instance you unfairly assuming something about their intent. Something. There is no winning.

Some people simply seem intent on being unkind whether in a general or in a targetted way. Several read the board, rarely participating in the positive, waiting for something to pounce on.

I hate watching those attacks turn enthusiastic people into bitter people. That sucks worst of all.

One more thing I hate is when people who are nice and who don't like attacks, look the other way when their friends do it. Or sometimes even applaud the attack.

That totally sucks. Though not as badly as when the innocent people get hurt.

But what are you gonna do? You can't expect them to call out their friends. I've tried that - tried being honest about when my friends were doing something they wouldn't like being done to them - and that doesn't go over so well.

My best hope for everyone is that the people who are nice will keep posting marbles and ignoring the complainers. Hopefully the complaining will wither away when it is seen that it is not getting a reaction, or when the reaction is to label it as squabbling and send it to the time out room.

But yeah, Bo, it's terribly difficult when they're so insistent on distracting you that they get in your face. The semi-annual hit and run which a couple of members do is not so bad. It's a pain, but it's over with quickly.

When it comes down to it, we have to decide which consequences we're willing to risk for acknowledging the person getting up in our face. There are gonna be consequences.

[Steph]

Sometimes I stay out of fights because I know that me getting in will turn the thing about me. Whatever the h@ll the fight was about, it will become about me.

Sometimes I use that reality a different way. I step in to draw fire because I'd rather get it than see someone else take the brunt.

And sometimes, though it's rare, sometimes I do go on the offensive for my own satisfaction. I've taken so much b.s. that sometimes I say what the h@ll, I'm gonna say something this time.

The preceding post was a mixture of options 2 and 3.

[marblemansion]

I think - for a board of this type - the ideas of banishment or "room to themselves" are both good....however banishment requires more work for the moderator to keep track of offenders number of warnings.

A political website I frequent allows the moderators to deduct points from you - you start with ten and you can lose them for various reasons - if you fall below 4 you get a day off - but if you go 30 days with no complaints you get your points back - if you lose all your points you get a week off for first offense, and then 2 weeks, and then a month etc...you get the idea.....this has greatly reduced the amout of trash talk that goes on among members there and has made the board and the topics at hand to be a flourishing bonanza of visitors and contributions. This system is good for the political arena - but might be overkill for a marble site.