Guest marbleus1 Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 bidlygump gratoses quadrafies tipply proxemissive tapne bas proturentnaxses. David Within lies the secret to immortality. Any questions, see previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marbleus1 Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 My bad, I mistakenly entered the latin/creole recipe for possum on the halfshell or armadilla. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankgrrl29 Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 Anbody who is worth a hill of beens regarding marbles made like this, should have figured it out by now... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ayup.......bag as day here, as well. but as long as those marble-fakers haven't picked up on it yet, my lips are sealed! i got yer back, jeff! ~chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankgrrl29 Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 sorry ponko, i really wish i could, but you know the old saying - i'd have-ta kill ya. drink a couple of mai-tais and cross your eyes three times real fast, and i bet you will be able to see it! ~chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibstified Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Merry Christmas Mibsters. Although I rarely post on this board, I'm probably one of the many marble collectors who visit frequently. I always enjoy discussions regarding CAC mibs, especially threads regarding the "exotics". I'm sure this theory regarding their existence has been previously posted in some form or another, but figured it might be worth discussing again. It seems like the point of contention between those who believe they are genuine CAC machine made marbles and those who believe they are contemporary reproductions, centers around the lack of any documented original box sets or the existence of cullet. Given their seamed construction, most agree that they are machine made and not torch made. But, what if these marbles were produced as a means of getting rid of the many different batches of glass left over at the end of a given day, week, month, or maybe even ,at the end of a company's existence? Kind of like Champion furnace scraping marbles, but manufactured without ever intending to package and sell them. Yes, they are indisputably beautiful and one might question why the CAC wouldn't see that beauty and move to fold them into production as a standard offering. If these marbles were produced as a normal part of some kind of clean-up or material purging process, they may have eventually come to that conclusion (if the company had remained in existence for more than just a few years.) What if producing these marbles was a means to get rid of all the remaining material when they shut down for good? Judging from the size of their building, they were probably a small operation, with a handful of close-knit employees...like family. How fun it could have been, knowing the doors were gonna close, to use up the remaining material to make creative gems like these. They would all have taken some home for their family and friends, but would have had plenty left over. Probably no trash pick-up in those days so they'd have buried what was left on the premises. Although founded only on imagination, the above theory makes allot of things fall into place. -- If "exotics" were never intended for production, you would not expect to find any documented boxed sets in existence, with the possible exception of marble boxes passed down within the family of an actual CAC employee or someone connected in some way to the company. -- From the bits and pieces of stories that I have gleaned from posts, regarding secret or unauthorized digs at the Cambridge factory site, apparently many of these marbles were unearthed, but no "cullet" was found with them. Again, if not meant for production, there would be no cullet present to match-up with a specific "exotic" run. Within the context of this theory, the exotics themselves could be considered as reprocessed cullet. -- Based on using waste or left over material as feed stock, whether it was a routine process or factory closing exercise, the marble runs would probably be somewhat random and unique, varying widely in the number of colors and glasses used. Probably why you don't see many (if any) posts of 2 or 3 marble "same cane” examples. -- Again, from my recollections of previous posts on this board, I guess there are a handful of very fortunate people that have had some direct or indirect connection to one or more these Cambridge digs of days gone by. Is it reasonable to postulate that many of the exotics that have surfaced to date, could have originated either from one of these digs, or from within families of relatives once connected with CAC? Unfortunately, there are many reasons why those who may have obtained their exotics from either of these sources, would choose not to make any public disclosures for the sake of establishing provenance. Sooooooo......, as O'Reilly always says, "What say you Sir (Madame)? Tell me where I'm going wrong." mibstified (Bill) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokoken Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Where is Bill Tow on this topic ? He is as knowledgeable as anyone on exotics and has had loads of experience with them. I would love hear from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankgrrl29 Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 hello, mibstified! i like the theory about the furnace clean-up. i would've thought something like that would produce more marbles though. even the peltier 2nd runs are all over the place, even though there was only a relatively "small" amount produced. Where is Bill Tow on this topic ? He is as knowledgeable as anyone on exotics and has had loads of experience with them. I would love hear from him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Marble IQ Test: Bill Tow is to Public Controversy like Water is to: a. kool-ade b. instant oatmeal c. freeze-dried instant coffee d. OIL other things i've learned since this discussion came up: there are a number of people who are just 1 or 2 degrees of separation from the actual "finds" (plural) but who don't give a rat's patootie about proving anything to anyone. they've seen cullet, they know the situtation on where they were found and how they were distributed, and they know about the crappy ones found alongside the fancy ones. as was pointed out to me, the population of collectors on the boards comprises about 1% of all marble collectors. what we want or think doesn't mean squat in this scheme of things. hashing things out on message boards is just what these collectors don't want to be involved with. ~chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokoken Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I agree with Chris on the above. It is shame though that the knowledgeable collectors don't participate on the boards. The speculation and half truths on the boards are bad for the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibstified Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Ken, I gotta think BT would have acquired his first exotic CAC mib more than 10 or maybe 15 years ago, long before the development of their market value and therefore before anyone would have had any driving force to mimic them. I think people who have or have had a confidential source for these marbles are going to be reluctant to get to deep into a public forum regarding what they know about their origin. I agree with you that half truths are no better than no truths, but speculation without the assertion of any hard claims is just plan fun and healthy discussion. Hello back at you tankgrrl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I LOVE MARBLES Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Chris, that's d. OIL. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest howgoestheenemy Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Unfortunately, there are many reasons why those who may have obtained their exotics from either of these sources, would choose not to make any public disclosures for the sake of establishing provenance. Maybe/probably I'm naive, but I don't understand this. What are some of the reasons for their silence? Money? I still don't understand why those exotics wouldn't be worth hundreds no matter what their origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankgrrl29 Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Maybe/probably I'm naive, but I don't understand this. What are some of the reasons for their silence? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> not naive, just stubborn...... read my previous post. they don't care. they're not on the internet. (or if they are, this issue doesn't hold any importance) our desire to know more means nothing to them. (or maybe it would, if they knew we existed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest howgoestheenemy Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Well...SCREW THEM!!! P.S.: the "flaming" or "yelling and screaming" was intended as a very small joke. I just barely care what the origin of those marbles is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankgrrl29 Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 okay, marie! our desire to know more means nothing to them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> what i should have said was that just because we feel entitled to the information, it doesn't make anyone else obligated to provide it. ~chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest howgoestheenemy Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Who's marie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibstified Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Say someone had a consistent source for obtaining these marbles that was out of the main stream where all of us less fortunate collectors live. On one hand, the love of the hobby, maybe collector's pride or possibly the desire to add legitimate provenance as to their true CAC origin, might spur them on to inform the marble community of their story. Providing any credible information that would support their CAC origin would only undergurd the market value of their investment. On the other hand, I can see how it would be difficult to tell such a story without revealing the nature and identity of their exclusive source, thus putting it's exclusivity at risk. Whether it is a factory worker descendant, a dig site, legitimate or questionable, it really doesn't matter. From a standpoint of protecting an investment (and maybe future investments), there is no driving force big enough to justify risking the loss of that confidential connection to these marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roany poany Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I looked up "ostracized" in the dictionary. to my relief I found out it didnt mean that someone would make me as big as an ostrich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest howgoestheenemy Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Thanks for the explanation, mibstified (clever name!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I still don't understand the secrecy here. If I had an oil painting that was potentially very valuable but it's authenticity couldn't be established by the "Art Community", I think that if I could provide proof and provenance I would do so. It could only benefit the owner. With these marbles, I believe the same thing would happen. Revealing the truth couldn't have a downside. It seems to me that silence only benefits the owners if the origin of these marbles is questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankgrrl29 Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 i don't get the impression that any of the owners are concerned about establishing authenticity within the community or anywhere else. that's the point everyone is missing. that said, i agree with ken, that i personally have a curiosity that i would like fulfulled for my own knowledge. it would be great if someone would come forward and say, "oh - you wanted to see the cullet? i thought it was just garbage, but here you go....." or something of the like. and as frustrating as it is not to have answers, i don't believe that just because i'm a collector that i am entitled to that information. ~chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Chris, I respectfully disagree. I believe you ARE entitled to this information. You, and many others like you, ARE the marble hobby and you are not separate from the Exotic owners. What is good for you is also good for the others, and vice versa. A member of ANY hobby, would like to avoid the problem of walking a constant minefield of fakes mixed in with authentics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibstified Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 OK….in an effort to draw a real world parallel…….say you knew a guy who did estate clean-outs for a living and held onto any marbles he ran across, to give you first dibs. He always bought estates in the older part of town, having access to many a “Grandma’s Attic”, so the marbles he ran across were old and the real thing. You routinely purchased his marbles at an agreed upon price level, which may or may not have had any bearing on market value. In other words, you had a unique and exclusive relationship with this guy, which was a win-win for both of you. In the process of sharing pics with the marble community and maybe after attempts to sell a few of the finer finds, some in the marble community began to question their origin, suggesting they might be fake. Would you offer the name and phone number of your marble contact to those who questioned their authenticity as a reference? Or would you let it ride, so as not to jeopardize your unique business arrangement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 That's easy. I don't have to reveal the name of my source. I doubt very much anyone would even try to verify my story by contacting him. But I would give an account of how I came by the marbles. If that's all I can do then it would stop there. My account of getting them from someone cleaning out old houses is entirely plausible, and woudn't result in controversy. In this scenario, there would also be no question about ALL the marbles that I have, only the odd one. I doubt whether all the Grandmas had the same marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokoken Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 I agree names of the sources need not be revealed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homes454 Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 WOW.....thanks Scott, Lizz. Jeff, Galen, etc , etc. ....I had no idea and appreciated the loooonggggg discussion. Why aren't these stories in any of the books? Please continue to post more pics of these exotics if you have them. And what about these"second run Pelts"? Do any of you have any more info and pics of these? And whats the story on them? This hobby gets more facinating the more I get into it....Thanks again and wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!! I saw some of Scotts marbles and he does a grand job, thanks again Scott for the tour this summer!! Pax Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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