ManofKent Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 I'm a newcomer to marble collecting and my knowledge is very limited. Marbles in my youth (70's UK) were pretty much always Chinese made cat's-eyes. I soon realised that the shipping costs from the US to the UK for a single marble weren't significantly different to shipping a packet. Then the doubts started... Some of the packets sold on ebay didn't look right even to my untrained eyes, and other members confirmed it. The more I looked, the more I realised there were more bags of marbles that didn't look right than did. Whilst I'm sure many of them are sold in good faith by people who've picked them up somewhere not realising the bags are fakes, fantasy or more kindly reproductions possibly some are sold to deceive. I won't make that judgement call, just whether what is listed is what it purports to be. Hopefully this thread will be useful or at least an interesting perspective to other newcomers. Please do chip in with thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 My first purchase, and one I was fairly happy with (Al kindly confirmed I made the right call). My gut impression is there are less faked Vitro bags (or at least more genuine ones available) than with many brands. I don't know much about marbles but oddly I know a little bit about plastic bags and a folded seam on the rear of a bag is a good (but not infallible) indicator of an older bag (most modern ones are sealed along the edges). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 One that didn't look right (and again kindly confirmed as 'fantasy') The tear off perforations on the bag suggest a fairly modern bag. The graphics are reasonably convincing, but I've had it confirmed that along with the Navy and Air Force these are someone's 'fantasy' and never existed. Were Alox Agates ever sold in poly bags? I'd be interested in seeing a photo of a genuine one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 I didn't need any help with identifying this one as pure fantasy - I suspect the marbles are modern Chinese - they look pretty much like the standard marbles you pick up in UK toyshops today: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 These looked good to my eyes and are purchased (it's probably the only way I'll ever be able to identify the maker of clearies ). Late 50's early 60's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 You're definitely on track. I'm not totally sure about which decade that Vitro header is from either. I would also have late 50's or somewhere in the 60's as my guess but maybe I could/should do a little more digging and I could pin it down. I very much like the Aqua Jewels bag. You're right about the Army, Navy, Air Force Alox bags being wrong! And about the "RIO Theatre" bag having modern Asian cat's eyes in it. However, yes, Alox did have poly bags. (Bigger versions of the next two here: http://marbleconnection.com/topic/6691-mostly-pix-alox-agates) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 One of the things I've learned with poly bags is to look to the seams on the back. There had better be a seam, as the bags were made from flat stock. Modern bags are made from tube stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 I never quite understood about the back seam -- like how it was made or why we don't have it now. Now it clicks. Thank you, Jerry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 5 hours ago, Steph said: ... Alox did have poly bags. (Bigger versions of the next two here: http://marbleconnection.com/topic/6691-mostly-pix-alox-agates) Very useful photos - it's nice to have a bag header reference so that I know when to have a closer look. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Steph said: I never quite understood about the back seam -- like how it was made or why we don't have it now. Now it clicks. Thank you, Jerry. Tube bags weren't invented until the mid 50's and took a few years to get used commercially. Tube bags on a roll (with tear off perforations) weren't invented until 1957ish and again it took a while before they were really used. Al Oregon did let me know he's seen vintage bags made without seams. I wouldn't write off a bag without the back seam if it appeared to be mid 60's but with 50's bags a lack of seam or a visible tear off line are big red flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted May 7, 2016 Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 I'm seeing a lot of Champion bags where the card header looks good but the bags don't, although I don't know how long that header style was used for. Am I right to be wary of these?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted May 7, 2016 Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 Champion bags are VERY tricky. Those do not look like Champion marbles to me from what I can make out. I don't remember the details of the story but someone got hold of a lot of Champion packaging and a lot of Champion marbles. And so someone other than the factory backfilled a lot of Champion bags. Sometimes it's Champion marbles in the bags. Sometimes it's some other maker in the bags. Check out the bag and the description in this post: http://marbleconnection.com/topic/6731-mostly-pix-champion-agates/?do=findComment&comment=86688 That's a neat sample -- really nice marbles. They weren't supposed to be in that particular bag but they were very cool. Usually you won't get so lucky with the misbagged marbles, so it's good to be cautious with Champion headers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2016 Most useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Are these good for Buddy / Ravenswood? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Everything looks good to me there. Nice ones to have, if I'm correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Oregon Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Those Buddy bags look good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 Thanks both although I suspect I might get priced out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 I'm assuming these were okay (too late now...): Heaton Cats eyes - bag had seam and looked okay. Vitro All Reds - looked okay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 Yes, I think so. As in pretty darn sure on the Vitros and I think so on the Heaton. .... and pretty cool. Heaton isn't something people usually go for out of the chute, so you're starting off on an interesting path. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Steph said: Yes, I think so. As in pretty darn sure on the Vitros and I think so on the Heaton. .... and pretty cool. Heaton isn't something people usually go for out of the chute, so you're starting off on an interesting path. Well done. It's mainly a case of what's available at a reasonable price that looks interesting at the moment. I'm not interested in how rare they are or whether they're popular with other collectors at the moment. I'm sure at some point I'll be looking more at individual marbles but the shipping system (particularly where sellers use eBay's global shipping programme which doesn't allow combined postage) makes buying individual marbles a costly investment - essentially it's around 22-25 USD shipping for an average bag or 19 USD for a single marble... I've looked at some of the mixed lots but I'm not experienced enough to tell from a photo how much they're padded with modern marbles. The Heaton's looked interesting - and hopefully I'll be able to clearly see the difference between them and the Vitro Cats eyes. I'm not sure I stand much hope of ever telling the West Virginia swirls apart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Oregon Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 Yes, both the Heaton and Vitro were legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 8 hours ago, Al Oregon said: Yes, both the Heaton and Vitro were legit. Thanks. I'm getting a better eye. The non-manufacturer bags seem hardest. This sort of single colour marbles that tie into a product's colours are so unconvincing I'm not sure they were even designed to fool: Some of the Mr Peanut bags look plausible at first glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Oregon Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 They just "pushed" them out in bulk like the ones you show above. There are some sketchy Mr. Peanuts bags. If they are Alley swirls, very good likelihood of being legit. If they are older MK's with a BB or CS, same answer. If they have "Play the Game, Be Fair...." on the reverse, they are most likely legit. If they have "Play the Square...", that's where you have to look at the marbles and for the seam on the bag - that's where there may be some fakes. Amana - Des Moines Marble Show Article (9-25-13).doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Oregon Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Here are the other two pages on the fkae marble bags flyer from the mid to late 1990's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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