Transitional ghost core?

[ManofKent]

Struggling to get good photos of this one...

3/4" blue clear glass with a curled stream of bubbles like a tornado running through it.

Machine made but with a very neat ground pontil at the top and two tiny indents like () at the bottom.

Bought in the UK so possibly European, but obviously we get a lot of Amercan (and Asian) marbles too.

Any info/thoughts appreciated.

 

[ManofKent]

[Steph]

Goodness!  That's some tornadic action.

Are you sure machine-made?

[ManofKent]

1 hour ago, Steph said:

Goodness!  That's some tornadic action.

Are you sure machine-made?

Not 100% - but it's near perfectly spherical - if it's handmade rather than just hand-gathered it's the neatest handmade I've seen in my limited experience.

[ann]

Well, some of the old ones are nearly perfectly spherical.  But rather than use roundness as a first indicator, I'd say look first at what the glass itself is telling you about how it was manipulated -- for instance, you would be much more likely to get that internal tornado by hand-gathering, rather than by machine-making.  Much more.  Probably the closest you'd come with machine mades would be some of Akro's augers.  And they used spinner cups.

And if that's a ground pontil I see in the left pic of the last pair of pics -- well, that takes it out of the realm of the machine-made right there.

 

So I hate to break it to you --    but I think you have a much better marble than you think you have! 

(German; ground pontil; probably 1840-1860; unusual color.)

[J_Ding]

I think Ann has it.  I can't make out the detail of the pontil enough without hallucinating...but, the convergence of glass to that point hints to that...but, want to make sure it isn't one of those tiny line type transitionals. Either way, Ann is right on...this is a very nice marble, unfortunately.   john

[ManofKent]

32 minutes ago, ann said:

Well, some of the old ones are nearly perfectly spherical.  But rather than use roundness as a first indicator, I'd say look first at what the glass itself is telling you about how it was manipulated -- for instance, you would be much more likely to get that internal tornado by hand-gathering, rather than by machine-making.  Much more.  Probably the closest you'd come with machine mades would be some of Akro's augers.

And if that's a ground pontil I see in the left pic of the last pair of pics -- well, that takes it out of the realm of the machine-made right there.

 

So I hate to break it to you --    but I think you have a much better marble than you think you have! 

(German; ground pontil; probably 1840-1860; unusual color.)

Thanks -  I thought hand-gathered marbles could be machine rounded? Yes it'd definitely a ground pontil on the top - very neatly done with two facets - one larger one and a slightly smaller one to follow the curve. The base has two very small indents a bit like a pair of closed brackets.

21 minutes ago, J_Ding said:

I think Ann has it.  I can't make out the detail of the pontil enough without hallucinating...but, the convergence of glass to that point hints to that...but, want to make sure it isn't one of those tiny line type transitionals. Either way, Ann is right on...this is a very nice marble, unfortunately.   john

Thanks

[ann]

1 hour ago, ManofKent said:

Thanks -  I thought hand-gathered marbles could be machine rounded?

Yes, they can.  But in that case, the machine-rounding would eliminate the pontil.  (Think of the smooth, straight cuts that generally can't be felt on MFC marbles, which are all transitionals.)  There would be no need for the extra step of grinding anything off . . .

[ManofKent]

5 hours ago, ann said:

Yes, they can.  But in that case, the machine-rounding would eliminate the pontil.  (Think of the smooth, straight cuts that generally can't be felt on MFC marbles, which are all transitionals.)  There would be no need for the extra step of grinding anything off . . .

Thanks Ann - that makes sense. I've been reading descriptions of 'ground point', 'melted point', 'crease point' transistionals etc. but I think I was taking too simplistic a view.