Slag or swirl.... how can you tell?

[Mikie_T]

OK.... I think I see a hint of some marble manufacturing practices here. I had NO IDEA this was how it was done.......

1 hour ago, Steph said:

One thing about slag glass versus swirl glass -- slag glass is (usually?) made from "batch"  -- where they stirred up the glass with a special recipe.  

And West Virginia swirl glass is (usually? often?) made from cullet.  Rejected glass from some other place.  Maybe from a factory which made art glass.  Maybe from cold cream jars.  For example.  

WOW.... so sometimes the glass used for marbles was "rejected" glass from other glass manufacturers.... 

I have also seen cullets available for sale on ebay and had no idea how they played into the marble making process.

SO.... these cullets were glass rejects from use in making a vase or some other glass product?

COOL!!

Mike

EDIT**.... So I understand, SLAG glass was made by the marble manufacturer?.... correct? Swirl glass was bought that way?

 

[Steph]

Slag glass was made by the manufacturer.

Some or all of the swirl glass could have been bought from other sources.  Pretty sure they'd mix up the transparent separately -- maybe with their own mix or maybe from other sources, and then they could add the crushed cold cream bottles into that.  

Cullet could be used on both ends at a marble factory.  They could use it to make marbles.  And they could create their own cullet in the process. 

  Vitrolite was a company which made glass products, and their cullet went to places like the Heaton swirl company.  So Heaton could put Vitrolite cullet into their furnace and makes some swirls and then could have spilled some of the their molten glass or let marbles get stuck together in clumps, and that's how you get Heaton cullet.  

 

If you see Akro cullet, that's rejected glass at the end of the Akro marble making process. 
 

 

[Mikie_T]

Thanks so much for this marble making lesson. The light is beginning to come on.

(Still kinda dim but coming on)

Mike

 

[Steph]

  Here's some of the Heaton cullet I was thinking of.  Four swirl marbles globbed together.  

The white glass  came from Vitrolite cullet (as far as I know).  And then these four marbles didn't quite make it, so they became Heaton cullet.  

 

 

[Mikie_T]

So I understand... This is a cullet that was going to be Vitro marbles but since they failed, they were in route to be sold to Heaton so THEY could be used in their marble making. 

Now, the glass in this cullet could not be separated into blue glass and white glass....... So........ Heaton would just melt it and use it a recipe some way?

Mike

(This is interesting stuff!)

[Steph]

Bonus ... way off topic ... Vitrolite cullet is known for fluorescing sometimes.  So here's a blacklight shot of my Heaton cullet.

[Steph]

17 minutes ago, Mikie_T said:

So I understand... This is a cullet that was going to be Vitro marbles but since they failed, they were in route to be sold to Heaton so THEY could be used in their marble making. 

Now, the glass in this cullet could not be separated into blue glass and white glass....... So........ Heaton would just melt it and use it a recipe some way?

Mike

(This is interesting stuff!)

It's Vitrolite cullet.  Not Vitro.  Actually ... drumroll please  ... the Vitro marble name came from the Vitrolite glass company name.  

The founder of Vitro used to work at Vitrolite.  And his initial plan when founding the new company was to use Vitrolite cullet to make Vitros.  


As far as I know only the white glass in my Heaton clump came from Vitrolite.  The blue glass game from a different source. And then those two colors were joined together at Heaton.  

[Mikie_T]

OK, Now that I read again I see that the WHITE GLASS came from Vitrolite. Possibly failed cold cream jars. (or whatever)

SO, your's are failed Heaton marbles.... right? Hence the "cullet"..... (is a cullet just a clump of glass?)

Sorry, I hope you are not getting frustrated with me but I really am learning a lot here. Thanks for taking the time....

Let me see if I am grasping this...... Glass was made by somebody from raw materials..... Then, the marble companies would get glass in "cullets" and then use that to make marbles.

[Steph]

By george, I think he's got it!  

So that was the case for many of the swirl companies.   And that gave the "lower quality" glass we often see in the swirls. 

 

The slag companies made their own glass from the raw materials, and that's why we sometimes think of the slags  as being nicer and more solid than the swirls.  

[Mikie_T]

 

38 minutes ago, Steph said:

The slag companies made their own glass from the raw materials, and that's why we sometimes think of the slags  as being nicer and more solid than the swirls.  

OK.... so that is why the white glass is usually whiter in a slag....right?

Now, when a marble company was making a marble did they most of the time use the method in this video for making a marble?

 

This video looks really simplified because it doesn't really tell how they got the separate strands of color in the base glass. looks like all they did was dump glass into a furnace and out came the marble.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Mike

 

[wvrons]

The early machine made companies made their own glass. This includes MFC-Akro-Peltier-CAC-Alley-Ravenswood-Vitro-maybe a few others.  As years passed by and more competition came about. The companies that were still in business had to switch to using cullet to make marbles. Cullet can be any scrap glass with the correct coefficient. Cullet can be clear whiskey bottles, red tail light lens, cold crème jars, beer bottles, vicks jars, Fenton glass, Vitrolite,a long list. Vitrolite of Vienna WV provided every WV marble compny with cullet including Akro. Some Vitrolite will glow but the majority does not. Vitrolite was mainly about 4 inch square tiles used in bathrooms kitchens restaurants and businesses. Some Vitrolite was larger and fancier, some was laminated multiple colors. Some was used for the view windows in WW11 tanks. It was all sheet glass different colors and thickness.  Vitrolite made their own glass. Then the leftover or out of spec Vitrolite was sold to companies making marbles. Vitrolite was also used by Alox in St.Louis.   

The older machine made companies that made their own glass are usually more expensive and collectable today. Because they are better glass. The colors are brighter more rich or deeper,the colors do not bleed as much, the glass is tougher,etc.  The marbles made with cullet are not as tough because certain things used in the older raw glass were outlawed because of health reasons. The colors of most cullet made marbles are added to the base glass or stream different than older non cullet marbles. 

Companies that used cullet are Vitro-Peltier-Akro-Alley-Ravenswod-MK-Champion-Jackson-Davis-Playrite-Alox-Mid Atlantic-Heaton-Cairo-Jabo- etc.  As you can see some companies used both types, early their own made glass and later switching to cullet to make marbles with. Marble companies made their own glass and if not used or needed sold it to other marble companies to make marbles from it. 

 Most marble companies in business during and after WW11 were making marbles using cullet glass from hundreds of different sources. 

 

[wvrons]

Extra bright or nice white does not always mean a slag. CAC Akro some Alley and Ravenswood etc. made their own glass in their early years.  This glass not made with cullet will be brighter richer and nicer white than when the same companies made their marbles from cullet. CAC is well known for their very nice white in their swirls. 

[Mikie_T]

Great explanation wvrons..... Thanks so much!

Now I am beginning to see the whole picture. More studying to do. 

Mike

 

[wvrons]

The video above is at Jabo.  Jabo marbles were and are made from cullet.  Jabo is a single stream operation with different methods or points of adding another color or colors to the base glass stream.  Some of these colors can be added farther back in the furnace and some added just before the glass stream leaves the furnace to the shear. But the colors are added into the main furnace. Many of the older companies were multistream operation.  With this operation colors could be heated separate from the main furnace and added to the glass stream as it exited the furnace.  Many different methods were used to add the colors to the main base glass of multistream operations.  This was expensive due to extra smaller furnaces or tanks for each color, the delivery route had to stay hot etc. . Sometimes this was 20-40 feet or more from the small tank to the main furnace.  Cost had to be cut to stay in business. These were toys. It took several to be worth a penny. When the cost cutting was done the quality was less. Some companies survived and those who did not cut cost closed.  Vitro and Peltier were a couple of the long life companies. Many new marble companies come about in the mid 1940's. Many marble companies closed by the mid 1950's.  Another key in the closing of many marble companies was the introduction of the Japanese Cat Eye marbles. 

[Mikie_T]

Thanks so much for that explanation of the marble making process. I am getting a mental picture now about how marbles were made. This along with the explanation of the "whites" is starting to make sense.

I am loving this thread..... lots of lights coming on now.

Mike

[Steph]

Thanks, Ron.

 

 

keeperthread

[Nantucketdink]

If you search youtube for the Dirty Jobs show at JABO, you can find an even better video about machine made marble making.  Very fun to watch

[Mikie_T]

COOL..... I will have to find that video.

Thanks!

Mike