Vitro All Reds

[Mojo]

I have learned here that the Red color on the All Reds became less brighter because of the war and colored glass was hard to find and sometimes they have to travel 3 states for a little truckload of glass 

 

Made a few pictures of the ones that we find here in Europe ( Netherlands very often ) 

 

The ones on picture 1 : the top 2 are sended to me from the USA , the ones below them are obvious the same and need no comment 

 

But.....

 

Picture 2 : are these the same marbles ?

 

The 2 on the top , i have found only 2 of these so far , the yellow is darker on one Pole  and is mixed with a Brown ish color then the ones on picture one and the white bands on the equator are tighter also

 

Different type ?

 

And picture 3 : the Yellow almost faided away and the Red / Brown Pole became wider and spreads more over the marble

 

 

[Mojo]

Then i found these

I have heard that All Reds have 2 different colors , one color on each pole 

Are these All Reds or Vitro with another name ?

[Mojo]

The next i found are different then the ones i have posted 

These have the same color on each pole but they look different 

All Reds or these have another name ?

 

found 3 of these with transparant glas also 

[Mojo]

Then these....

Red and Blue

You find these in the Netherlands very often

These are All Reds but also many different styles ?

[Mojo]

The next i have found in the wild in the Netherlands are these

Green and blue colored

Green and red colored

 

 

 

[Mojo]

Then these popped up

Not many left now that i have to show , but these hold a pink ish color also

And a few where green color is mixed agaist the poles of the marble

[Mojo]

Then these are left

Other color based glas

Not white

[Mojo]

And this one , i have only found one here with this kind of blue color

[Mojo]

And last but not least

These 3

All Reds ?

They swirl 

[Mojo]

So far my topic about All Reds that i have found here

Think i found also marbles that are called

Vitro Black Line 

I will post those later , i have to sort them and compare them first with the Real Vitro Black Line i have got from the USA from my friends here

Last picture is from the marbles i have sorted and posted in this topic

I had fun doing this and i hope to learn something more about these 

Comments are more then welcome 

Thanks

Joep

[wvrons]

If I have time later ? I may try to explain each group or picture.  Looks like 8 or 10 to answer. Plus I think one group are Marble Kings. 

[Mojo]

5 hours ago, wvrons said:

If I have time later ? I may try to explain each group or picture.  Looks like 8 or 10 to answer. Plus I think one group are Marble Kings. 

Would be great and appreciated and i think this info is nice to know and to learn from for novice collectors and people who like to know about a little history these marbles carry with them , i think i have sorted them well then if one group is maybe Marble King 🧐👍

[Steph]

8 hours ago, Mojomarblelicious said:

The next i have found in the wild in the Netherlands are these

Green and blue colored

Green and red colored

 

 

 

My first thought was that I was seeing Akro here.  I quickly became uncertain.  But the first thought is worth considering. 

[cheese]

Vitro wasn't making all-reds before the war, but they were making marbles with red on one pole or a red ribbon on one side. Trilites were one of those types and they did usually have a lot better red on them. The colors on all the machine made marbles got weaker and cheaper as time went by. The war was pretty much the turning point for that. 

[Mojo]

36 minutes ago, cheese said:

Vitro wasn't making all-reds before the war, but they were making marbles with red on one pole or a red ribbon on one side. Trilites were one of those types and they did usually have a lot better red on them. The colors on all the machine made marbles got weaker and cheaper as time went by. The war was pretty much the turning point for that. 

The trilites will get a topic also when i get there , have the ones i got from the USA and i am going to compare those with European findings and see if we can get an positive ID on one of those findings because its a possibility that some that are indentified now as Foreign or Asian are realy Vitro , should be fun and a nice learning proces for those who are interested

 

[wvrons]

Picture #2 has marbles that are not the same. The top six are Vitro All Reds. The bottom three are not Vitro. Probably Akro.  The Vitro All Reds as you can see have a white base with one red patch on one pole and a patch of another color on the opposite pole. That is the definition of Vitro All Red.  The white base leaves a white band around the middle of the marble. With the two different color patches on each pole. The three marbles at the bottom have a red patch on one pole, a yellow patch on one pole and a red band or ribbons half way around the middle covering half or the white band around the middle. Akro made a lot of weak thin colored patch marbles. The bottom three also may be foreign to the US ? 

 Yes red glass was very difficult to get during and for several years after WWII. 

The first All Reds are what we now call Black Line All Reds. These are white base with a black or dark band around the middle or equator and a red patch on one pole and a different color patch on the opposite pole. The white base does show on most of these on each side of the black or dark band around the equator.

As the years did pass by the brighter richer color All Reds did fade and with thinner colors. Which look some like the bottom three marbles in coloring but the white band still remained around the middle. 

Many of the late 1980's and newer All Reds also had a super shiny iridescent finish on the surface. 

The name All Red means that when ever the marble rolls or is shot by a player. That the red color flashes and the red color is seen with every All Red marble.  Not that the marble is all red but always see red as the marble rolls with every All Red.  

[wvrons]

Picture #3. These are not Vitro All Reds. I cannot tell you 100% for sure if these are Vitro or Akro patch marbles ?   I have never researched these any amount as they did not have any appeal to me and have very little value with collectors. Also found in big numbers in the US. About every new collector finds these and separates them out of their collection the first year. They are usually gave away to kids or another new collector.  Maybe someone else knows definitely who made these patches or seen them in a original package ?  

[wvrons]

Picture #5 group of three, are not All Reds. The first one has a gray or darker ribbon or band half way around the middle between the two red/orange patches.  The second one has one orange pole and orange with a little gray band or ribbon half way around the middle, plus one white pole. The third one has a wide orange band with a little gray more around the middle and not a patch. The poles are white. I think they are the same company. But colors not as controlled or equal as the Vitro All Reds.  They could be Akro or foreign to the US.  Lesser quality glass and colors.  

[wvrons]

Pictures 7- 8 and 9 I am confident are Marble King patch and ribbon. In pictures 8 and 9 the far right center marble is colors like what collectors call the Jillian. Named for Jill Spencer of WV who named a big portion of MK marbles. I have dug these marbles in 7-8-9 pictures at the Paden City Marble King area. Most all these I left behind because so many were weak on the colors. they have almost no collector value. You can only carry out so many. Dirty marbles get heavy.  

[wvrons]

The goal at Vitro for All Reds was a white base with one red patch and a different colored patch on opposite poles. But if there was no red cullet glass that day. They did not shut the machine down. That is hard on any marble machine. Maybe they had red glass coming the next day. The continued to make marbles the same method and style pattern as they were making only without red. They used what they had and kept running marbles. These were cheap kids toys, quality control was not the highest thing on the profit list. For profit, number one was always numbers, marbles per minute. They did not shut down if they had no red glass. Construction or style or pattern is a trait. Color or color combinations is a trait. Glass quality can be a trait. A long list of traits. Traits are what is used to identify any marble. Experience and viewing millions of marbles is a plus. The more of that the easier it is to notice a different or trait. 

[wvrons]

All Reds can twist or swirl same as any marble. It is probably easier to make a swirl than keeping the lines, bands or ribbons straight.  Gravity tries to pull the hot glass stream in a twist. Just like water going down a drain.  If the machine operator is away doing something else, refilling the furnace, taking away finished marbles, etc. If something gets out of alignment or the glass temperature changes, etc. Then the normal standard goal of patch or patch and ribbon style or pattern may change. Each machine operator was responsible from the back of the furnace to the finished marble. He could not watch the hot glass stream and marbles falling onto the machine rolls twenty four hours a day. He had other things that had also had to be done every fifteen minutes. So the marbles will not all, not ever be the exact same. Even when made the same day buy the same person. There are hundreds of variables when making marbles. One of those change and the marbles final look may change. The goal was numbers per minute first and then try to keep them near the same what ever that goal was. The ones which were not the same or the goal were usually tried to be sorted out and discarded. But that is slow and labor intensive. They were cheap and the loss of a few marbles was better than paying more wages.  They did not sell a hundred or a thousand marbles. They were selling pounds, tons of marbles. Making them at 250 per minute, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, every month if possible. The larger companies had four to fifteen machines, with each machine doing this. Do the math, Cheap toys in numbers, not collector items to be inspected and scrutinized fifty and seventy five years later.  

[Mojo]

1 hour ago, wvrons said:

Foto #3. Dit zijn geen Vitro All Reds. Ik kan je niet 100% zeker zeggen of dit Vitro of Akro patch knikkers zijn? Ik heb deze nooit onderzocht, omdat ze me niet aanspraken en weinig waarde hebben bij verzamelaars. Ook in grote aantallen gevonden in de VS. Ongeveer elke nieuwe verzamelaar vindt deze en scheidt ze het eerste jaar uit hun verzameling. Ze worden meestal weggegeven aan kinderen of een andere nieuwe verzamelaar. Misschien weet iemand anders zeker wie deze patches heeft gemaakt of in een originele verpakking heeft gezien?  

Deze bedoel je op foto #3

[Mojo]

1 hour ago, wvrons said:

Foto #5 groep van drie, zijn niet All Reds. De eerste heeft een grijs of donkerder lint of band halverwege het midden tussen de twee rood/oranje vlekken. De tweede heeft een oranje paal en oranje met een kleine grijze band of lint halverwege het midden, plus een witte paal. De derde heeft een brede oranje band met een beetje grijs meer rond het midden en geen vlek. De palen zijn wit. Ik denk dat het hetzelfde bedrijf is. Maar kleuren zijn niet zo gecontroleerd of gelijk als de Vitro All Reds. Ze kunnen Akro zijn of buitenlands naar de VS. Glas en kleuren van mindere kwaliteit.  

Foto 5

[wvrons]

The picture near the end with one marble, white red and blue and four pictures. The blue looks the same in two pictures and different in the third. I assume the true color of blue is the first two pictures ? It does not look like any normal All Red. The red and blue cover way to much of the white for normal All Reds. Plus you only have found one. It may be a messed up mistake All Red or Akro or Foreign to the US ? 

[Mojo]

3 minutes ago, wvrons said:

The picture near the end with one marble, white red and blue and four pictures. The blue looks the same in two pictures and different in the third. I assume the true color of blue is the first two pictures ? It does not look like any normal All Red. The red and blue cover way to much of the white for normal All Reds. Plus you only have found one. It may be a messed up mistake All Red or Akro or Foreign to the US ?