Ceramic marbles with stilt marks

[hdesousa]

Benningtons were glazed and fired together, like a bunch of grapes I suppose, so that when they were pulled apart after the firing, "eyes" were created where they touched each other.

Some marble however, were fired after being placed on a stilt - a three pointed ceramic holder.

Here are a couple rejects where the glaze ran over and the marble could not be separated from its stilt.

[hdesousa]

These marbles were all recovered from "The Marble Wreck"

They all have stilt marks!

How many of your glazed ceramic marbles have stilt marks?

[Carowill]

Great information!

[Ric]

I haven't checked every ceramic I own but there are obvious stilt marks on this 1 13/16" one. I'll try to look through more later and get back here. I have also heard that the stilts changed over time and that the ceramic ones were the earliest while the later types used pointed metal pins that left much smaller marks. Do you know anything about that?

[hdesousa]

3 minutes ago, Ric said:

I haven't checked every ceramic I own but there are obvious stilt marks on this 1 13/16" one. I'll try to look through more later and get back here. I have also heard that the stilts changed over time and that the ceramic ones were the earliest while the later types used pointed metal pins that left much smaller marks. Do you know anything about that?

That's a nice marble!  Have not heard of metal pins being used to hold up marbles in a kiln; I know little about the process but can't see why it would not work in a low temperature firing.

AFAIK, American Marble and Toy did not use stilts.  They had ceramic plates with indentations to hold their marbles.  This fragment (not the marbles) was excavated at their site in Akron, OH.

[Ric]

Just another thought, I think you have to exercise some caution when looking at more round "stilt marks". Since it seems to me that the top marble in a four marble pyramid, which I imagine would be a common arrangement when batching them together more like Benningtons, could also appear as stilt marks.

[Ric]

7 minutes ago, hdesousa said:

That's a nice marble!  Have not heard of metal pins being used to hold up marbles in a kiln; I know little about the process but can't see why it would not work in a low temperature firing.

I want to say the metal pins may have stuck up through a ceramic "button" to make the stand. I'll have to ruminate on it a while and see if I can recall the original source of that information.

That is a very cool relic from AM&T and I have noticed that none of my marbles from them show evidence of any kind of stilt. I do think I had a few ceramic ones that did show evidence of a different style of firing stand though. I'll see what I can find.

[Ric]

Here are a couple of more I came across - just under 13/16" & 7/8"

These are interesting. I got them from a German seller about 10 years ago.

[Jeff54]

17 hours ago, Ric said:

I haven't checked every ceramic I own but there are obvious stilt marks on this 1 13/16" one. I'll try to look through more later and get back here. I have also heard that the stilts changed over time and that the ceramic ones were the earliest while the later types used pointed metal pins that left much smaller marks. Do you know anything about that?

I have one 1-1/8" just like this and another 1" Benington brown colored. They are both of my freebee portion wherever I'd bought glass handmade, cane-cut and machine-made swirl groups from Germany. I mean, I did not buy the groups for the ceramic marbles so, I think of them as free bonus stuff.. Both only have 1 stilt or glaze melt mark. I guess that puts some mud in the water considering difference in typical Benington type US vs. Euro made.

[hdesousa]

11 hours ago, Ric said:

Here are a couple of more I came across - just under 13/16" & 7/8"

These are interesting. I got them from a German seller about 10 years ago.

Very nice (and unusual!).

[hdesousa]

26 minutes ago, Jeff54 said:

I have one 1-1/8" just like this and another 1" Benington brown colored. They are both of my freebee portion wherever I'd bought glass handmade, cane-cut and machine-made swirl groups from Germany. I mean, I did not buy the groups for the ceramic marbles so, I think of them as free bonus stuff.. Both only have 1 stilt or glaze melt mark. I guess that puts some mud in the water considering difference in typical Benington type US vs. Euro made.

Not sure what you mean by "Benington type US" marbles.

 

[Ric]

26 minutes ago, hdesousa said:

Very nice (and unusual!).

I agree they are unusual. I have wondered if they are reproductions or just new. It almost looks like the first is further along in the embellishment process than the second. I have another that is very similar but came from a different source. I'll try to get a pic of it up later.

[Jeff54]

7 minutes ago, hdesousa said:

Not sure what you mean by "Benington type US" marbles.

 

The typical 5/8" or so, blue or brown, that are in abundance in the US. I had so many of those, I kept a few examples, but dumped them years ago for taking up to much space.

[Ric]

Just now, Jeff54 said:

The typical 5/8" or so, blue or brown, that are in abundance in the US. I had so many of those, I kept a few examples, but dumped them years ago for taking up to much space.

Are you referring to Bennington-like marbles that have no "eyes"?

[Jeff54]

42 minutes ago, Ric said:

Are you referring to Bennington-like marbles that have no "eyes"?

If by "Eyes" you mean Glaze melt marks then no, I doubt that. I guess there are some that do not have melt 'Eyes' as, clearly billions were made. 

And I have been aware of three slit marks for several years, I did not have any of those. as for glaze melt, 'Eyes' heck, there's usually one too three or so, as I perceive; production of billions was fairly sloppy. I threw and sculptured clay throughout H. S.  touch marks from whatever platform used and or touch accidently when placed in the kiln when firing, has not been a surprise for me whereas, comparably, Bennington type are sloppy.. 

Yet, it does seem that pointy, although my clay objects used ceramic lower, wider  and flatter, unlike those shown,, triangular 3 point stilts for firing , I do not think US glazed marble verities did. I mean, in all the junk, as I thought of Bennington, none of those I saved, nor any various unusual colored types, I still have, do. If I had a 3 point, would have kept it. 

Bennington's kind of got annoying for me because, I'd see and hear so many D. people either scamming with nonsense or other's having heard such as rare and they're everywhere. It lost any intrinsic value, in my opinion. .

Albeit, I do have a few glazed goodies.

[crashbelt]

All the numbered ceramics on the Jaques' Magic Number Squares (c.1855-70) were dried on what we call trivets. 

They were placed so that the three small marks were on the back of the marbles. In this 16 hole set there was an error and the number '12' was dried on the numbered side (as you should see if you look carefully - one mark is on the lower end of the '1'). I always found that rather cool. My 9 hole set was all done correctly.

[Ric]

Let me relate the story about how I put this group together . . .

First, they all have stilt marks. The center two are 7/8" and the outer two are just under 13/16". I showed the 2nd and 4th marbles above, and I will show the 1st and the 3rd below. If I had any sense I would have organized things better.

I found the 1st in the wild probably about 18-20 years ago. About 15 years ago, I acquired the 3rd one from Bill McCaleb, and this is where it get interesting. Billy swore up and down, on several occasions over about a three year period, that he found this marble while he was digging the Peltier site in Ottawa, IL. Of course, I was skeptical so I pushed him hard about it on multiple occasions and he continued to insist that was the case. And I can tell you two things about Billy, 1) he never would have lied to me about this - he honestly believed that is how he acquired it, and 2) sometimes his memory was not that great. I acquired the 2nd and 4th ones from a German seller about 10 years ago, as I mentioned above.

Here are photos of the first one I found (1st in the row) . . .

And here is the one Billy insisted was dug at the Peltier site (3rd in the row) . . .

As you can see, the first marble I found is similar to the one I purchased from the German seller in that they both have pretty much a 1/2 & 1/2 wash of two colors. These are certainly not "Benningtons" but they do remind me of those uncommon 1/2 blue and 1/2 brown ones. The marble I got from Billy is not as neat but it too has a similar pattern of coloration. You can also see that the 2nd-4th marbles all have a pronounced striping that appears to be variegation in the body material, similar to a variegated earthenware or a "Jasper". The only one of these marbles that does not have blue, green and brown with some other tones is one of those that I acquired from the German seller (2nd in the row). Another notable feature is that the marble I got from Billy may actually show signs of having been buried - you can see the finish is not nearly as glossy as the others and it looks like it has considerably more "pocket wear".

So there you have it. That is all I really know about these marbles. Although I did see a few similar ones at the Buckeye show in Canton several years ago. If you have any information or thoughts about these marbles please let me know. I welcome any and all comments about them.

 

[hdesousa]

12 hours ago, Jeff54 said:

The typical 5/8" or so, blue or brown, that are in abundance in the US. I had so many of those, I kept a few examples, but dumped them years ago for taking up to much space.

Pretty sure the benningtons you're describing were made in Germany.  (not my pic)

[bjmarble]

Here are a few that exhibit the 3 dots from stilts. Most just show a little bit of a flat spot from sitting along with debris picked up during firing. The large Blue and Fancy benningtons show the best. Their size is 1 & 9/16" and 1 & 3/8". I did not find any smaller ones with the 3 dots so I must assume they were just laid in piles in the ovens. I have no information on their history but have enjoyed reading the history revealed in this thread.  None of the unglazed chinas I have show any of these characteristics.

[Jeff54]

10 hours ago, hdesousa said:

Pretty sure the benningtons you're describing were made in Germany.  (not my pic)

Yes, Benington marbles is a misnomer for the assumption gathered years ago. Yet still, there's no shortage of the blue and brown glazed marbles all across the USA.

I do have some quite unusual Pewees I picked up in 1983 at an antique store in the middle of nowhere Kansas, I am thinking I might try, once again to get a photo of, for this topic. Can't guarantee I can do it because, last time I tried, years ago, I could shoot better. But I picked the few different colors out of the store's tin can. I had remembered my brother and I havening these, our Dad picked up in a junk auction for 1960 price; a nickel or dime.

They're a 1/2" well rounded and sized into  speres, simi-flat glazed with 3 dark colors of green, purple and a brownish plum. Grey stoneware that's heavy in weight.

I have never seen any on the net or elsewhere. my brother, two years older, thought they were Army marbles from WWI which seemed to fit. Albeit, with the war TV shows, back then, he was a big fan and liked to play Army. IDK but I think we may have used them with slingshots as they are just right sized and weight. I picked each color they had and best condition however they all have tiny chips, even the little bag of 9, I've kept them in all these years since I bought them, has tiny pieces that apparently flacked off. It's not paint, but it seems the gray Stonewear is not stable enough to retain the coating. They are hard and fairly heavy so, maybe slingshot ammo? Maybe one of ya'll has some and can get a good photograph?

[bjmarble]

A picture showing the variety of Ceramic marbles i've collected over 30 years. Largest is 1 & 11/16".

[Ric]

18 minutes ago, bjmarble said:

Hey BJ, nice to see you here! That green one is great, I'll have to check my Chinas now too.

[Ric]

@bjmarble That's a great case. I have not seen one quite like this before. The color is surprising to me - very nice.

[bjmarble]

That would be a clay marble along with the rest in that row.

[Ric]

Just now, bjmarble said:

That would be a clay marble along with the rest in that row.

I suspected so but that's probably the brightest dye job I've ever seen.