Steph

Here is the famous diagram often posted. Someone said it was Alan's.

I believe the term "diaper fold" is generally applied only to certain CAC's . . .

^agreeance

O.K. That's what I thought too. So the question now is . . . which ones?

Ric, my personal preference would be to give that name only to those which have the most classic "diaper fold" construction. To me this means a very clean wrap and join. Before I would boldly call a single-seamer a diaper fold I would want the fold to be so clear that I could picture the little baby's legs dangling from the sides of the seam. I need photoshop to draw a baby into the picture! LOL But I personally can see the baby's legs poking out here. Chubby little legs. So cute. ;-)

. . . . . . . . .

Even when I'm feeling bold sometimes it comes out timidly by the time I post about it! LOL. So I want to be really really sure before I claim it as a diaperfold.

I very much prefer to err on the side of caution. I don't want to be the one whose ebay auctions people post about. I grade conservatively. I count colors conservatively. If I'm not 100% sure I don't count it.

Peltier baseball marbles are another example for me. I want to see a very particular look before I declare one of my Rainbos a baseball. Having just 2 sorta loose pair of ribbons doesn't do it for me. tho' I know that's okay by some others' definitions.

One of my exceptions to the strict rule is that if I know a kid used the names, I won't say the kids were wrong just because they don't match modern collectors' stricter defintions. LOL. An example of that is that I don't require "snotties" to be CAC's. I know that back in the day, kids called other marbles snotties also. Tie goes to the kids who actually played with the mibs! LOL

(I guess that might apply to pelt baseballs also but I'm still not sure about when the name baseball was first used for rainbos. :-)

/end digression (lol)

There is a diagram which SOME have found useful in the past to show classic diaper fold construction. Some may not like diagrams in general, but I don't recall anyone actually disagreeing with its accuracy. I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks for the response. Sorry I didn't answer the questions sooner. That was the only pic I had of that medal. I saw it in mswitzer's diaper fold thread and thought it might make for an interesting discussion.

It gave me a chance to try to pick out some of the signs I saw in the ACRN article on repro medals.

That article attributed most differences in appearance between old and new to the new ones being cast in molds where the old ones were "die struck the same way coins are minted." They elaborate: "A separate engraving of each side is forced against cold metal under great pressure. The result is a virtually flawless piece with very high detail."

The molds for the new ones were made from old medals. So they have precision issues due to being copies, and then they have some problems connected with pouring hot metal rather than stamping cold. if I understand correctly.

Ric, I've waited for nine pages for that question! "Collecting Early Machine-made Marbles the MF Christensen etc.." Robert Block page 7 top right "fold pontil"...long and short of it is a diaper fold pontil is a cold roll mark on a machine-made American marble .

If you don't have the book, I'll bring it to Texas. Just let me know.

For those marble collectors who have seen mibs made on a machine and have seen one come off the rollers with a cold roll mark, you have seen a diaper fold made.

Steph was right when she said Block has made some mistakes, but this is not one of them! The people who understand his mistaskes and those of other author's are those who have had the mibs in hand and/or been to a marble factory and actually see how it happens.

Interesting post.

This is going to be a test in how to respond when there is a difference of opinion. Possibly very strong.

Well, very strong in my case.

Steve, I respectfully disagree with your take here. I don't think that "diaper folds" have anything to do with "fold pontils". This might be the first reference I have seen to "diaper fold pontils".

I'm very curious as to what led you to make that association.

single seam pastel

Are you in a hurry to get an ID?

To me the comments I've read mean, "keep it in the mystery bin, wait for more information to be revealed." More interesting that way, anyway (imho). It's the search right? ;-)

Ric's Akro for example looks better formed in some ways. The textured seams on yours keep me guessing/hoping. There are color similarities between Akros, Alleys and Vitros. I just wouldn't want to chuck it in yet and settle on anything.

This 1st pic is a little fuzzy but it looks like some of the patches in this first box have both yellow and white on an ade base. Sue brightened the 2nd box. I remember Brian asked about whether those were more corks or more swirls. I need to look up the answer again.

(additional images, click to enlarge)

. . . . . .

(Hi Ric, I know you were on the edge of your seat waiting for me to post these pix which you've probably already seen anyway. lol.)

Thanks Steph, I guess my question really is . . . Is "diaper fold" a more specific designation than "single seam"? For instance, perhaps only applicable to hand gathered marbles, or Christensen marbles, or . . .?

I believe the term "diaper fold" is generally applied only to certain CAC's.

My present belief is that those CAC's were entirely machine made. I don't know how they got to be single-seamed, but my present impression is that they were gobfed.

I'll be interested in hearing other opinions tho' since I do still have trouble picturing the process which could create them.

Ric, not all, I'm pretty sure.

Here are some single-seamers, at least partly Akro. I think the pic is Mibstified's. These would pretty definitely not be hand-gathered.

I kinda did think it was "special", but for a backwards reason, namely that I'm not seeing Jabo.

I wouldn't mind having it for my collection of non-Jabo buttcracks. That collection is not quite as special as my non-CAC "diaperfolds", but I still think non-Jabo buttcracks are cool.

Before I learned the term "buttcrack", I thought of that structure as a "tulip", or maybe just a "flower".

there's the bud in the middle, and the stem, and two leaves on the side. About as good as I ever learned to draw a flower as child.

I mean, I can't say it is impossible for it to be a Jabo, but to me it looks like a WV swirl.

Some of my "flowers":

Why oh why did you have to decide to trim your collection when I've already shot my marble budget for the year.

G'luck! !!!!!

p.s., happy b-day m!b$. I knew it was yours too but I was still submerged! Hope it was a good one!

Happy (way way) belated birthday.

from a dope.

still trying not to be tho'. Please no pipe bombs.

Thank you everybody!

Happy (way) belated birthday Burt!

Happy Mike day!

Sue is a handmade collector, not a machine-made collector. She wasn't pretending not to know. She was trying to help in an area outside her comfort zone when the people who did know weren't stepping forward. Folks like me. Not that I'm an expert, but I've concentrated more on machine-mades than she has.

But I haven't been stepping up, not much. Because I have something I've been supposed to mail to Darla for MONTHS, and haven't done it, and have been trying to stay away from the board until I get it done.

Pretty much failed all around.

But have to say Sue doesn't pretend. IMHO.

Frickin A!

Duffy stomped me with 4 players gone. And Brett Favre on the bench! LOL That's cold! LOL

Dani, the league is supposedly head-to-head. I mean the scoring and settings page says head-to-head. I only say "supposedly" because I don't know what head-to-head means in the first place.

I think that maybe one reason you get such different results from your two teams could be that this league manager didn't go with all of Yahoo's defaults. For instance, if the QB throws an interception, in this league he will lose 3 points instead of Yahoo's 1 point. and like that.

Bob Block's Marbles: Identification & Price Guide has some errors but it's pretty handy in general.

That said, I can't think of any one book which covers everything I wanted to know as a newbie.

Posting mibs on the boards is really a great way to go if you have a halfway decent camera. If not, of course that is its own brand of frustration.

I have a single seam MK, a coupla single seam Akros including a carnelian, and even a single seam cat eye (or pretty darn close to being single seam - hard to tell with the clear, you know).

My bumblebee:

maybe you saw me :ph34r:

That blue and that structure make Alley a tempting possibility also.

(some pix)

:ph34r:

Ducking in.

. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . .

(I think the marble photos came from Manddrakes' auctions)

Ducking out.

You didn't see me. :ph34r:

http://www.nochucknorris.com/

Since the marbles in the ID section are mostly machine mades, the hand made collectors and contemporary collectors don't tend to look over there.

There are some versatile collectors who can field all types of question, but mostly the contemp collectors don't seem to be that much into visiting the ID forum. Even the ones who would be totally glad to help ID. They just don't tend to look over in the ID forum.

Well, that's my impression anyway. Soooo . . . there you go. Nothing to apologize about. I just wanted to increase the visibility of your mib. Now it's got a link in the ID forum and in the main chat forum. Hopefully you'll get an answer.

Another type of mib question I tend to move is when someone knows the ID of their mib but they want to know the value or rarity. Those threads sometimes start in the ID forum and I might move them.

Happy Brad Day!