mon

Happy B-day Duffy! mon

It was stated that the reserve was $10,000 in this tread. If someone wanted to show an exaggerated excitement in this auction by bidding it to the edge of the reserve, would this really set a true value? Some bid an auction with a reserve up just to find out what is then, retract their bid. Does the bid before the retraction set a true value for that day if the bid was done by the same bidder or one with the same intent? E-bay is not a true auction in that, when you stand in front of an auctioneer and have the high bid having reviewed an item in hand, it's yours! With E-bay, it's not over until payment has been made. mon

The marbles sold by sham-rock are made from modern glass by Spectrum, Kokomo, Bullseye and Effretre. So, I'm sure that the surface and feel is different. But, a machine like that does not have to use modern glass! I think if his intent was to make an exotic ...he could. mon

OK, what "good" questions would you or anyone like to have answered? Maybe if someone else ask them here, they will not think it is just me stirring the pot and this community would like some kind of answer. If there is nothing to hide, why not answer all these questions even if they feel it has been addressed before? mon

Thanks for posting your insult. I'm trying over here........believe it or not! I don't have any facts that can pin this topic down. But, I do have questions, replies, hearsay and whispers. If marblealan held known contemporary marbles that caused him to believe that he could have been duped.....so much for not being able to reproduce a Cac. mon

Galen, these are hand gathered cac's. Do you think they were made at the Cambridge site? mon

At some point during my holdings of said marbles, I talked with Alan B. over the phone. He was upset over some known new marbles that caused him great concern. He said somethings to the effect that if he has been duped, fur would fly. I don't remember if he told me the maker or not......I think I was in a state of shock. lol mon

Posted 23 December 2005 - 09:31 AM Kokoken Where is Bill Tow on this topic ? He is as knowledgeable as anyone on exotics and has had loads of experience with them. I would love hear from him. Like I stated earlier, the top players just disappear and act as if they don't care. Is Bill T. trying to distance himself from any involvement? I give R. Hall credit, he explained his side and was willing to talk with anyone. He even encouraged me to have members call him. It's the closest "what happened" explanation from a major player I've heard that was told by the Art's. Does it hold water? Clyde, I will call the garage again to ask about the concrete for the garage. I will see if she can dig up dates of any major events that involved earth moving. mon

The middle, top row marble has a band of glass to the right of the clear center band that looks to do the "s" properly to the seams. It might on the others(esp. top left marble) but would need better pics of the seams. Galen, it's fine...it just struck a nerve as I've had multiple questions from the get that have been, and still are, ignored Clyde, you have posted some very good & candid info! I was not expecting post #166 from you. thanks Also, speed racer! Spara, your right and will you share any ideas as how to follow the money? mon

Sorry steph for aiding the implosion of your thread! Sorry to the 12 year old for things that I may have posted that hurt you! You have some great looking marbles and are very smart for your age. bay

I love it!!! All the proof I need! He thinks the civil war marbles are real. So, I thought the tooth fairy was real 6 years ago whats your point? It's on the top of your head! All the serious CAC collectors I know (3 or 4) are convinced and willing to pay way more than me, at this point. Is it 3 or 4? < 6 correct! Under big big magnification, the structure of the exotic is indistinguishable from any other, universally-accepted-to-be-genuine CAC. WHAT? Under big big magnification, the structure of the exotic is indistinguishable from any other, universally-accepted-to-be-genuine CAC. Do you hear me now? Oh, I heard you the first time. Just was wondering how big big I need? Indistinguishable from any other what? I think the labor involved in faking one would be so great, any marble maker would be better off to make what he usually makes which may sell for less but wouldn't have to pass a barrage of scrutiny/sweat the pressure of having to pass off the "fake" once finished. It's not about work........ Yes! It isn't! It's about whether or not anyone can fake a CAC and, so far, I haven't seen any succeed, including Shamrock. I've read all these posts by naysayers that have all these reasons the CACs aren't genuine except not ONE has posted the words that can be regarded as anything other than hot air: That they know for a fact that X marble is a fake, they have proof and here it is. That's why we are here1 Because the sellers that salt a few WV Swirls and white based Corks into their, otherwise, totally worthless lots of Peltier rainbos and baseballs, un-noteworthy catseyes new All Reds and a few Vacors don't need to invest in an exotic to sucker buyers into bidding up their listings. His point was that no exotics have been offered in lots........ah heck...you know what he meant! Yeah, I read at college reading level, thanks: I explained his point - WHY exotics have not been offered in lots........ah heck......you didn't know what I meant. Ah heck, no I don't! And whats all this about this dig in 2000 as the Genesis of exotics? They're just striped opaques, striped transparents and submarines (maybe guineas, too). Where's the mystery or controversy? 2000 dig? Who said anything about a 2000 dig? Color combo ....pattern... quantity ..no cullet backing...quality...sneaky deals....and so on. In this very thread. I don't remember "who", but it's here - Go find it yourself! I already read everything in this discussion before I shot off my big mouth and started bagging on other people's posts. Oh yeah, I haven't bagged on anyone's post, have I? Never mind! No, you find it......."2000 dig" are your words. pics One is a flame and the only one close to an exotic is in the 1st pic upper right. If it contains the odd color mix of mauve, light green, baby blue etc it would be. I can't tell. But, interesting in that, it would be the earliest sighting(for me) of an exotic. You're right about the flame, second pic, second row from bottom - my bad. The pics on the color plates in Bauman's 3rd, especially the CACs, are miniscule, the largest, actual size image on either page of CACs measures less than 5/8" (15mm) across with some as small as 3/8" (10mm). Nonetheless, top left is a striped opaque as are the two below it, 3rd down, far right is a transparent stripe as are the two above it. In the second group, lower left is a striped opaque with mauve, light green, white, yellow, black and hot pink on a baby blue base, although I haven't heard the "mauve, light green, baby blue, etc..." criteria before and question the validity of such parameters. The only criteria I know of for "exotics" is that there isn't another CAC category they fit because there's too much going on. What's going on...everything is everything several of which are the same, exact, CAC's I've seen and bid on(and won a few) on eBay, consistently offered at a rate of one to three, or so, a week there. Marblealan sells them on consignment pretty regularly since May that I know of - usually one or two each week but I haven't seen him use "exotic" in his listings descriptions and why would he? They seem to sell fine without the controversial moniker Using "exotic" would not enhance a listing or marblealan would surely use it! Lots of hurt feelings under this cloud. I sent pics of mine to marblealan to get his opinion on the current market. He replied......At this time, I'm not selling any contemporaries. After a frantic reply, he said he made a mistake and sold them.lol Sent him pics of your what? Thought you read at a collage level........my exotics...see page one. Even I admitted to making a mistake, so why shouldn't marblealan be allowed to make one? I thought it was funny, thus the lol. Again, what's your point? And if he sold them, who's feelings got hurt? Them, them what? Who said anything about hurt feelings? What about the ignored stuff .........Are the Art's marble people? Why sell to the Art's? Is the story the same for Ken and the others? Ken writes in an old thread how Bill T has one of the trusted eyes, thinks they are real and was in it early. Read Bill's posts! What do you think of VT's Thelma marble? mon Re: "The ignored stuff: show me anything proving that the marbles in question aren't CACs. The only evidence I've ever seen, and keep seeing, confirms that they are CAC's. I have posted evidence in my previous post dispelling the post 2000 dig emergence of these marbles. Who are Art's marble people? Who's Ken and Bill and VT's Thelma and where are their pics? Maybe ask them to post here. In the meantime,I'll post the other CAC color plate from Baumann's with more exotics (published in Sept, 1999) listed under "diaper folds" and "slags and swirls": That's why we are trying to find one true story! I'm not a naysayer or a yaysayer...just someone who loved and hated them. One who owned them before the big questions and thought .....this will be explained in a heart beat. But no, the people at the top just avoided the questions and from my seat, looked like they didn't care. I'm not sure how long you have been reading these boards but, this has been a can of bloody worms opened many times in the past. I was so let down from a hobby I thought was a bunch of old hippies having fun that, I didn't pick up a marble or read the boards for years. Boo Whoo, I didn't start posting to start a fight. Thought maybe enough time had past and some people would start to talk....wrong again. mon ; =O)

All of you may think i'm being nasty but have only tried to offer my mib for testing, opinion on others thoughts and my questions. All the way up to Galen's above post.....that pissed me off! mon

Take your ball and go home! mon

1st, mike offered to send you a pic and I said ok only out of kindness to mike. 2nd, if you have a fosho trait, that would the first question IMO to ask back.....like hey, is this a corkscrew....well. is it green? RE: what marbles did you have concerns over and why? They are the same marbles. please don't ignore. How do we go from asking the frontline players to, I was told that it's alien poop? Kokoken and Bill T have some questions that they have yet to answer, why? Kokoken also posted in an old thread, stating concern with sham-rock marbles and marking them. If they are so detectable, why? If Bill T. has one of the trusted eyes, what does he think construction & color wise? Did that play a part in him not buying? Do any owners of sham-rock's have the ground breakin "s" pattern? Taking them home a few at a time.....why no flames? If it was an employee: How old is he/she? Who's going to charge them with theft ? How can they prove theft? If it was tax reasons, why take checks or give your name? If you would like these ? answered, have the nads to ask! mon

Really? Mig sent you pics of my exotics for your expertise and you thought some were questionable. My mibs are on the first page. Which ones did you have a problem with? Every exotic I had, had the "s" trait, and that's fosho. Why would you just not ask if they had this structure and be done with it? mon

Cac 101..........why the big big magnification if it just that easy? I believe that trait in a 2 seam cac is known by all who collects them. But thanks for pointing it out! What traits are you looking at deep deep inside? It's amazing what the yaysayers ignore! mon

no. 20 under love is pretty funny in today's world! mon

Here is Ken's post... the in it early stuff is in another post... I don't pretent to be omniscient about Christensen Agate like you, Don. It seems the older I get, the less sure I am about a lot of things. The best eyes for CA that I know belong belong to Brian Estepp. Bill Tow, Charlie Hix, Alan Bassinet, Don Rios and recently departed Les Jones. I think I can speak for them in saying that they do not consider them fakes- not even suspicious. Could you give us contact info for one of your "old time collectors" who is positive that they are fakes ? I, for one, think we have yet to see all the varieties of mibs that Christensen Agate produced- and that is the fun of this great hobby. The hobby is hurt when unfounded remarks are make on a public forum.

I love it!!! All the proof I need! He thinks the civil war marbles are real. All the serious CAC collectors I know (3 or 4) are convinced and willing to pay way more than me, at this point. Is it 3 or 4? Under big big magnification, the structure of the exotic is indistinguishable from any other, universally-accepted-to-be-genuine CAC. WHAT? I think the labor involved in faking one would be so great, any marble maker would be better off to make what he usually makes which may sell for less but wouldn't have to pass a barrage of scrutiny/sweat the pressure of having to pass off the "fake" once finished. It's not about work........ Because the sellers that salt a few WV Swirls and white based Corks into their, otherwise, totally worthless lots of Peltier rainbos and baseballs, un-noteworthy catseyes new All Reds and a few Vacors don't need to invest in an exotic to sucker buyers into bidding up their listings. His point was that no exotics have been offered in lots........ah heck...you know what he meant! And whats all this about this dig in 2000 as the Genesis of exotics? They're just striped opaques, striped transparents and submarines (maybe guineas, too). Where's the mystery or controversy? 2000 dig? Who said anything about a 2000 dig? Color combo ....pattern... quantity ..no cullet backing...quality...sneaky deals....and so on. pics One is a flame and the only one close to an exotic is in the 1st pic upper right. If it contains the odd color mix of mauve, light green, baby blue etc it would be. I can't tell. But, interesting in that, it would be the earliest sighting(for me) of an exotic. several of which are the same, exact, CAC's I've seen and bid on(and won a few) on eBay, consistently offered at a rate of one to three, or so, a week there. Marblealan sells them on consignment pretty regularly since May that I know of - usually one or two each week but I haven't seen him use "exotic" in his listings descriptions and why would he? They seem to sell fine without the controversial moniker Using "exotic" would not enhance a listing or marblealan would surely use it! Lots of hurt feelings under this cloud. I sent pics of mine to marblealan to get his opinion on the current market. He replied......At this time, I'm not selling any contemporaries. After a frantic reply, he said he made a mistake and sold them.lol What about the ignored stuff .........Are the Art's marble people? Why sell to the Art's? Is the story the same for Ken and the others? Ken writes in an old thread how Bill T has one of the trusted eyes, thinks they are real and was in it early. Read Bill's posts! What do you think of VT's Thelma marble? mon

I've tried not to ass u me anything and and would like to weigh the evidence. Since the first doubt was cast, I started questioning this hobby. Here you had "gods" of the marble community being called fibbers and "in it for the money"! What's going on? I bought 200 +, mint + Cac's and only one with a healthy chip. They are real! Smitty told me a story about a can full of mint guineas from one source that HD bought...are they real? I think so! Just because someone is liked here and holding back his name is part of the problem. If he did it...he owns it and won't be the first to sell marbles that are represented with doubt. Let him explain why or how. I don't want to devalue anyones mibs because someone whispered or closed a door on me. Just want as much info to make an educated decision or a smoking gun. mon

Good memory.......he was all the talk back then! Who got stuck with that large red based guinea? VT, I've been looking at your marble over and over......it's an odd looker with ....like a two seam snotty cyclone/glob striped transparent w/burnt looking edges, in a pretty way. Was this typical of the early Thelma/Art's mibs sold? Would like to see more examples! I wish the experts would comment on it cause as you can tell, I'm not one! mon Speed racer, please tell more.

Duffy, No, Mine ranged from a rare .560" (not shown in pic) to just shy of 3/4". I do remember the fake guinea era...a red one sold large! I would have suggested castration for Ryan! thanks duff, mon

Ken and anyone with 1st hand knowledge, may I ask, did you ask Thelma and/or the Art bro's about there origin? If so, can you tell? Is it the same as Rick's? I think it's becoming clearer that the first (1999-2001) marbles are not what we call the "exotics" today. According to the garage employee, one project was done in 1995 and the other was in 1998 but she couldn't remember which one was first. So, if we go with the story Rick was told, these exotics, at best, stayed out of sight for 4 years...........why, when you needed to bring in your bro for capital? What did they live on for 4 years? greg11 stated: These all started surfacing around the time that young couple was selling tons of halves and cutlet at the columbus show. There was no exotic looking stuff in their score. Les got a few hundred stripped opaques that same summer, Clyde got to pick out some of the nicest ones. these came from one find in a jar. I don't think the early sighting of non named exotics are even connected to the Thelma/Art's exotics.....no income for the Art's here. mon

Now thats some funny sh*t! mon

I said "payday" not money. And I too would like to see a book or a book/pamphlet but would also like to know the real story now. People are buying them now and if they are fake, and the music stops, they might not have a seat. In the pic of Ken's marbles I see only 4 subs, 4 striped opaques and one flame that I bet did not come from the exotic find. I would love to see the first so called exotics that sold before 2002...how about the rest of you? Do they contain the"better examples" colors or previously known colors? VT and Clyde, maybe try sending pics to Steph. Thanks VT for the time invested already! When did Danny T. start selling them? Was it before the water line dig? How do we know the lesser quality, non named exotics were exotics? Did they come from Thelma and/or the Art's? Were they marble people (for the hundredth time) and if so, would they not of had CAC's before the water line dig? Again, if so, not every marble that they sold had to be an exotic. mon