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These two were found in Holland. Cees

I found two of these kind of marbles, same colors, same pattern, here in Holland. Also think the same size. The seam indeed makes me also think that they are German made, also the fact that I've found them in Holland. Thanks for sharing, besides my two marbles, I did not see more of them, think they are rare? Cees

This is what some people here also think, the marble had to protect the thimble.

Thanks both for youre reaction, Steph I also thought it might been done by a child, but others here think that there are to many found with a marble in it, there must have been a reason that the marble was inside, I don't know. Cees.

I was asked several times, what the meaning is of this combi, a thimble with a marble in it, found several times, at several places, in Holland, most of them found by digging. You can't remove the marble without damaging the thimble and this while some people think that the marble is there, to protect the thimble? Also known in the US, or other area's? Hope somebody knows some more? Cees

Hi to you too Steph, Hi Ron, I'm also from Holland, there are indeed a few collectors from Holland here, but it seems that marbles are not as interesting in Belgium, as they are in Holland? The lady is a student reporter, she want's to make, for school, a report about marbles in Belgium, but she can't find a collector, so she asked me to help her, There's not much more I can do for her than this, so thank you both for youre reply. Cees

A lady from Belgium mailed me, asking if I knew a marblecollector from Belgium, well I don't. Does anybody of you know someone from Belgium, collecting marbles, or is there on this board someone from Belgium? Hoping for some help, Cees

Very nice marble Jeroen, and indeed very rare, seeing some reactions, there are collectors who would be very glad to have one of these kind of marbles too. But even if you think you've got every marble in youre collection and you know everything about it, you might be wrong, isn't it? Cees

Looks like a same marble indeed, thanks. Cees

That large one with the eagle (??) on it, is that a so called "silhoutte china"? A few years ago I saw a marble like that and it had that name, also with an eagle. Is there somebody who knows more about these kind of china's? Cees

With polishing a marble you'll take away it's soul and history, in my opinion you can't speak about an authentic marble any more. Cees

No not packed, I was in Illmenau, and spoke a man, who worked till the end at the Illmenauer Glasswerken, also at the marblemachines. He told me what I know now.

Hi Steph I agree with you, I also have German cat's, 99% of them have two or more colors and indeed they are less sharper then the modern cat's, they are fat. And even if it were German cat's, as far as I know, they were made in Illmenau, starting in the early 50's. Cees

I was questioned by the mail, phone, about this item, all of them ask me how it is possible that those cat's were in that box? During the 50's, these cat's came to Holland, more generation's played with them, but not the generation of Anne Frank, at least not when they were child.

When youre cat comes home, in the middle of the night, through the bedroomwindow and knock's over a jar filled with marbles. The jar breakes and a few hundred marbles rolling over the wooden bedroomfloor. Cees

By polishing an old marble you'll create another new marble, no longer authentic. The surface will be very smooth and shiny, but you can't see any more, the marks, left there by the craftman, who made it. If it is machine polished, with no longer pontils on it, I think you even can't speak no longer about a handmade-, but a machine made marble. Cees.

And what about the value, can you compare that with a German one? Cees.

No I don't think that these wirepulls were made during the 70's. He told me that the marblefactory began in 1950, till 1962 but that's very close to youre information. Cees

I don't know if they are repacked, could be, but why should they do that? Cees

I don't know the real age of this marbles, might also been in the 60's. I have also some original bag's with clay's from Germany, these bags are from the 50's and also made of kind of plastic? At least it looks like plastic, but the condition of these bags is much better than those with the clays in it, so you could be right. Yes I saw that topic, very interesting indeed. Also in Germany there must be (much) more to find than there is already done. Cees

This is one of the reasons why I doubt, if there was a marblemachine in Amsterdam. I've bought these original bags with wirepulls in Holland. They belonged to an old toyshop. When the last owner died, the children cleaned up the store and house and sold the whole building. So the store is gone, this was many years ago. The woman who sold me this bags, told me she bought the original box with only bags of these marbles in it. She gave a lot of them to her (grand)children and sold some. I was so lucky that se kept a few and the box. There are no labels on the bags as you can see, but on the box there was only one label, as showed here. DB means, so far as I know, "Deutsche Bahn", so much as "German Railroad", so it is an transport label of the German Railroadcompagnie. Why should a toystore in Amsterdam buy Wirepulls in Germany, while almost the same marbles were made in Amsterdam?

Winnie that picture is also lost, I'm sorry but if you also look in Archives of Amsterdam you've got to find it, it did that also. The area of the factory was indeed very large, on this picture you only see a smal part of it. The marblefactory was indeed behind the main building. The main glass they used for there items wasn't made in Amsterdam, but in Germany. They only made it on size and colored it, if it had to. The leftovers from the main factory, were used for the making of the glassmarbles, so in the same way like they did in Germany (Illmenau) and France (Biot). The factory (marbles) wasn't operating full time,if they had enough leftovers, the machines had to be operational. The leftovers were most uncolored, so they had to color the marbles. By each machine, worked 1 man, so 2 man in total. His father imported the machines from Germany in parts and build them up again in Amsterdam, before he did that, he visited a few times a marblefactory in Germany. The story goes that one of the machines is now in the Glasmuseum, close to where I live, but I don't believe that, I think that the machine, standing there, was never used, they also told me that in the museum, but I could be wrong of course. So far the story looks good, and with youre story next to it, it might be, that there was indeed a marblefactory in Amsterdam. I've digged deep, for more evidence, but that's hard to find, also because, they didn't made that much marbles there, because the machines were not always operational. But it could be, that the wirepulls, in youre and mine collection, were not all made in Germany, but also in Amsterdam. It is a fact, that we can find a lot of them here, isn't it? Btw, the clay marbles were made in Diemen, now you remember it? Cees.

Winnie, about the two pics, I ment the pics of the factory (building) that I found in the Archives of the city of Amsterdam, you just showed one of them. The pics of the marbles, that should been made in Amsterdam, I haven't got any more, they lost because of a crash in my computer. But I can easely discribe them, those were all Wirepulls, just like they made them in Germany, during the 50's-60's. As I told you, if you didn't know, you should think it were German Wirepulls. And if you realy want to know, I was a little (or a lot) dissapointed, I hoped to see some rare Dutch marbles, that we never saw before, but that wasn't it. If you threw them in a jar with other German marbles, you would never find them again. About the Sparkler, I also found them in 5 different European countries, but far the most in France and the ones I've found in Holland had mostly a link to France. The German Transparants and "slags" : you may name it as you like, everybody may do that. I just call them German striped Transparants or -Opaques. I don't think there were 2 seam slag's made in Germany, but that's my opinion, and that I think is the problem, there are a lot of opinions about the European machine made marbles. The factory, where they made claymarbles, was, as far as I know, not in Amsterdam, but close to it? Cees.

Hi Winnie, yes years ago I met that man, and indeed he was a son of the last director. He gave me info about that factory, also about the marble machines that should operated there. Also he gave me some pics of marbles, that should been made overthere. If you wouldn't know better, you should say, that those were made in Germany. With the manufactering of the machines, there was a link to Germany, so it could be that those marbles were indeed made in Holland. I don't know what to do with al his info, nowhere I can find any evidense, not in Leerdam, not in the archives of the city of Amsterdam, only two pics, one of them you showed just. For now I've closed the case, if you want to call it like that, I've lost contact, because I thought I was for sure on a dead end, not telling he lied, but he didn,t tell everything he knew I think, and maybe he was right? Maybe, if you want to, you can pickup more than I did, but that's up to you. I did find some other evidense, of a marblefactory, also in the area of Amsterdam, were they indeed made marbles, not glass- but clay marbles. I collected some pics and an old newspaperarticle of it, did you also found that factory? What's youre opinion about the Sparklers, I'm very interested in that, because I can't imagen that some of your Sparklers, don't have a link to, or are not found in France. This year (Dordogne) I've found several overthere, including a commercial one, with "Bonux" on it. Nice shopping there, 10 for 50 Eurocent, or three large ones and a handfull of old clays, for 1 Euro. My wife and children love to go to France and I'm very happy with that, there's a lot of historie and marbles to pick up for us, and it's a very beautifull country. Cees

Cees do you know something more about old machine made marbles? Hi Winnie, first of all, you've got a very nice marble there, thanks for sharing. About the European machine made marbles. About this marble I can't tell you much more, than you allready know, these flametypes, made in Germany, are one of the rarest made there, where and when it was made, I don't know. What I do know, is that the German transperants, and -opaques, ( slags as some of you call them) where made in Lauscha, because that's the reassson you can find them in the museum there. These marbles were one of the first machine mades in Thüringen. About the German sparklers, I think that name is totaly wrong, should be European Sparklers. I only found a few of my collection in Germany, while I was there, the rest of it, I've found in France, every summer we have holliday in France and of course I did my homework there. For me it is 100% sure that the European Sparklers were also made in France, and I think most of them. In the south-east of France, there is an area, that's looks very much like the area around Lauscha Thüringen, also this area is famous about it's glassworks, for example the presse papiers were made there. The sparklers must have been made, in, or close to the village of Biot, in the middle of that area. More then ones, this was told me by an antiqairian. Also the marbles here were made in the same way, as they did in Germany, by leftovers, kind of EOD's. I also met a man in Holland, who told me that his father was the last director of a factory in Holland where they made several items of glass, including marbles, there should been two machines in that factory, for making glass marbles in that time. Funny about this story is: he has no evidence for that, no pictures, no administration nothing. The factory did exist, that's for 100% sure and indeed they made glass products there, but I can't find anything about making glass marbles. But I will continue, and let you know if I can find some evidence. Just like you, I'm always looking for the history of the European machine made marbles, but it is very hard to find some of it. Sorry for the bad English. Cees.