Steph Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 You guys who've been collecting for years and years and even decades ... have they been called corkscrews for as long as you can remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBlock Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 I can recall the name being applied as far back as the early 70s. I can only remember playing with catseyes before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 Billy J. Williamson May 19th 1932 10:04 A.M. recess at George Washington grade school Columbus, Ohio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsantaclaus Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 The employee named Isreal that used the spinner cup at Akro is the answer Steph (best to my research). He was their glass man and did the formulas too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Billy J. Williamson May 19th 1932 10:04 A.M. recess at George Washington grade school Columbus, Ohio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 The employee named Isreal that used the spinner cup at Akro is the answer Steph (best to my research). He was their glass man and did the formulas too. Clinton Israel? The guy who owned Master? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Bump in case anyone can elaborate/corroborate ..... or just has other ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triker Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 I"ve seen a original box of corks stamped "spirals" Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Me too. And they're in the salesman sample cases. http://i119.photobuc...lerboxes007.jpg (big pic, might need to double click for full) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsantaclaus Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Yes Steph, it's Clinton Isreal. Clinton Isreal started at Akro as the blueprint machine maker and he was also in charge of Akro's packaging department. He was VERY knowledgeable in working with glass and it's characteristics. He influenced the Akro patches while at Akro. Then in June 1st, 1930 he resigned with three others that worked at Akro and he and the others went to Master Marble in May 20, 1930. Then in August 1st, 1941 he formed the Master Glass Company. I just obtained several 1" Akro shooters that look like Master Marble 1" shooters that were made when Isreal worked at Akro. He owned the Master Glass Company and worked at Master Marbles as well as Akro. It gets confusing to just say he owned Master since these two companies are so close in names...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Why do you believe he came up with the "corkscrew" nickname? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsantaclaus Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Reading a couple of books and comments made there in those books, knowing he was a brilliant artist with glass, his knowledge of geometry (helix curve) and looking at the marbles he made at Akro gives me the impression he was the one. I can't find EXACT documentation but I feel he was the one who coined the phrase "corkscrew." I hope someone can find EXACT documentation but for now, I think my guess is correct and when someone does I'll change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 p.s., I said owned Master because that was easier than saying "Was a cofounder of Master Marble and eventually owned Master Glass outright". Are you under the impression that he was only an employee at Master Marble, not an owner? Not clear on what technicalities you were trying to convey there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsantaclaus Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 I wonder why you think I had the impression that Clinton was the only employee at Master Marble? I said he worked there and now you tell me he was an cofiunder of Master Marble? Can you show me documentation of that please? Is this clear for you now since you asked me about technicalities? Remember, we are trying to determine who is was that made the phrase "corkscrew" and let's focus on that and trying to find documentation. Right now, I am making my best guess as I have stated before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 I wonder why you think I had the impression that Clinton was the only employee at Master Marble? I said he worked there and now you tell me he was an cofiunder of Master Marble? I didn't think you were saying he was the only employee. I thought you might be saying he was only AN employee. So I was doublechecking. I'm also curious about some of the other things you said, such as the time frame you might be operating under for which patches were made when at Akro but I didn't ask because that would be getting quite tangential. Can you show me documentation of that please? From American Machine-Made Marbles: "The Master Marble Company was organized in the Grasselli district of Clarksburg, West Virginia, by three longtime employees of Akro Agate: Clinton F. Israel, Claude C. Grimmett, and John E. Moulton." Is this clear for you now since you asked me about technicalities? No, but that's okay. Remember, we are trying to determine who is was that made the phrase "corkscrew" and let's focus on that and trying to find documentation. Right now, I am making my best guess as I have stated before. You're right. But I just wanted to understand what all you were saying about Israel. If you have more material about Israel than AMMM and would care to share I would appreciate that. If not then that's okay. Peace, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsantaclaus Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 AMMM????? What's that?...lol I do hope someone can come forward and help the adventure of finding out exactly who named "corkscrew." Maybe it's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 AMMM = American Machine-Made Marbles. It seems that you may have gotten some of your information from that but you mentioned "books" plural so I wondered what else you may have been using. I've bought 3 marble-related books this past month so my budget is strapped but I'd probably find some way to buy another if it told more about Israel. ( : Just using AMMM if I were to have guessed that it was some geometry-savvy Akro employee who came up with the nickname corkscrew, I might have guessed John Early. AMMM left me with the impression that Early was more involved in design and manufacture than Israel. I got the idea that Israel was more into the business side. Just my impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsantaclaus Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 I kinda agree with you about Early now you mentioned it - thanks. I didn't have that book at my fingers at the time - I was looking at another person's collection of books about 2am in the morning while visiting on my vacation. Honestly, I can't remember the ones I was looking at at that time. Do you think we are heading in the right direction of the one who first named those mibs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 I'm not sure yet. Still studying the trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I suspect (but don't know for sure) that it's a collector's name, albeit probably an early one. Don't think Akro called any of their mibs corkscrews. Or snakes. Have to check the 1st ed. of Castle/Peterson's machine-made mib book -- anyone remember the term being used before then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Billy J. Williamson May 19th 1932 10:04 A.M. recess at George Washington grade school Columbus, Ohio I heard it was his sister, Betsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I suspect (but don't know for sure) that it's a collector's name, albeit probably an early one. Don't think Akro called any of their mibs corkscrews. Or snakes. Have to check the 1st ed. of Castle/Peterson's machine-made mib book -- anyone remember the term being used before then? Bob said he recalled that name from the early 1970's. It was used by Randall and Webb in Greenberg's Guide in 1988. Sounds like they were most comfortable with the name "spiral" but also that they were aware of the name "corkscrew" being used somewhere else. They have a section called Spirals and they use that name throughout but they say "corkscrews" twice that I can see. First is in a caption under a photo from the J. Fred Early Collection which says "Selection of Akro Agate spirals (corkscrews) in a wide range of body color and striping." Second is in the value table where they say "SPIRALS OR CORKSCREWS". (edit: is that a value table? I think so but there is something odd about the entries. it's on p. 50 whatever it is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 The 1989 MCSA price guide calls them corkscrews. A mint 5/8" corkscrew would average about 40 cents. There aren't many entries for machine mades that year. (Cool to see evidence in print of what we latecomers always hear about when machine mades started coming into their own. ) In Greenberg's I see a reference to a 1985 MCSA guide. Were corkscrews listed in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I acyually thought the original post was done with humor in mind. Does anyone really believe it could be pinned on one person??? Way too many assumptions in this hobby already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I have no sense of humor! ... but my goal was no loftier than narrowing in on the decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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