Colored Sulfide

[MC Marbles]

If you go to the original listing on Ebay it shows the Green one sold for $1100.00. Ouch!

I would guess another case of more money than sense.

The blue and the green one are from the same seller.

[lstmmrbls]

Rich, big assumption that what you talked to Corning about has anything to do with Sulphides. At least in my way of thinking. Almost sounds like chemicals they add in furnace to make the glass colored??

[Greatmacscott]

How about an opion on ebay listing 281028289522 - colored figure.

Surface is rough and the glass is clear but looks old. thoughts please?

the same seller has a painted dog listed.

[richsantaclaus]

But it was the clear glass dipped into the chemicals Galen - that's what they said and I believe Corning knows a heck of a lot about glass!!!!!

Also, check out this link...

http://mydesignfolder.com/design-blog/d-i-y-stained-bottles/

[MC Marbles]

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3ccdbcb768

The same seller as two of the colored sulfides has the above sulfide listed.

In this listing it says:

EXCELLENT EXAMPLE TO HAVE RICH SHELBY REMOVE AIR BUBBLES

FROM THE SURFACE OF THE BEAR

So Rich...How many of the above marbles have you worked on????

[richsantaclaus]

I have repaired - 87. I always ask the owner to state that I have worked on the marble if ever they try to sell it. So far, each customer has honored my request.

[BobBlock]

How about an opion on ebay listing 281028289522 - colored figure.

Surface is rough and the glass is clear but looks old. thoughts please?

the same seller has a painted dog listed.

This guy has had several colored and rare sulphides on Ebay over the past couple of months. There have been a number of rare and unusual handmades that have come out of India in the past 15 years. I think Laurence might have been the first person who was sourcing them from there. It makes sense that marbles arrived there with the Europeans since India was a European Colony until 1947.

[lstmmrbls]

Sorry Rich, not questioning the fact that some glass is dyed. Just think it is a stretch assuming something done by a huge company like Corning(time period?) was done on a Sulphide marble. I may be way off but I believe the processes are fairly complicated. (Heat, chemicals, pressures etc.)

[hdesousa]

I have repaired - 87. I always ask the owner to state that I have worked on the marble if ever they try to sell it. So far, each customer has honored my request.

Several have been sold as "fire polished", without directly mentioning you.

for example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-3-16-SULPHIDE-LION-FIRE-POLISHED-/261137057067

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-1-4-SITTING-LION-SULFIDE-FIRE-POLISHED-/261137059458

But the seller was not trying to deceive anyone here. He freely disclosed what "fire polished" meant, when asked.

[richsantaclaus]

As you saw with the link Galen, actually it is quite easy - just mix and dip! That is something that any glass maker could do at any time period.

The colored sulphides that my customers wanted repaired ALL had color on the surface. As soon as the torch flame hit the surface, the color brured off and clear glass revealed itself.

[MC Marbles]

The colored sulphides that my customers wanted repaired ALL had color on the surface. As soon as the torch flame hit the surface, the color burned off and clear glass revealed itself.

Rich, Does that indicate all the ones you worked on had aftermarket coloring added to them???

I suggest the color would not burn off if it was a real one.

After the clear glass reveals itself, did you then need to add color to fix them?

I am wondering what the population of real colored sulfides is verses color added ones??

I thinking perhaps only 10% of the ones we see today were made originally with colored glass at the factory. Perhaps less.

[richsantaclaus]

Well Mark, I can only speak to the 10 or so that were colored and abused that i repaired. All of the 10 immediately went to clear glass as soon as the flame hit the outer surface. My best guess is that 150 years ago, someone did use colored glass to make sulphide marbles but going on looks alone, today, one can't tell (Maybe Galen can from his vast experience with colored glass sulphides verses outer chemical colored sulphides).

I believe my 21 years experience with torching various types of glass and working research with glass chemistry might not matter to some people with what I say about these type of marbles. Of course I am always trying to learn more. I wish I could answer your question about the population of true colored sulphide numbers of marbles but, alas, I can't. I know of no other way to test if it a real colored glass sulphide besides hitting it with a torch flame (after proper pre-work - don't do it by yourself please or it might explode!). If the color stays, it is real colored glass - if not, it was chemically treated. Personally, I wouldn't touch one if it didn't need repairing. Keep it as is and let the mystery continue!

Because today, we don't know what glass was used 150 years ago to make the sulphide under inspection, it is too risky to attempt to add more glass because of incompatible glass issues (COE = coefficient of expansion). So adding colored glass is not a method I would attempt. That said, IF I did know the glass WAS compatible, it can easily be added to the sulphide.

I wonder if a marble polisher might step in and add to the discussion. Have they ever attempted to repair a colored sulphide - and what happened? How far into the surface did they go? Far enough to remove the stained color part or was is still colored glass? Questions, questions, questions!

Rich

[richsantaclaus]

hdesousa - Fire polished means that the marble was reentered back into the flame to allow the heat to make the exterior surface area look as if were polished by a polishing wheel. Polishing a marble this way in no way removes ANY of the glass whatsoever. Glass, when heated back to a molten state, naturally wants to "go round." I also keep the punty turning to allow even glass flow during the fire polishing process - that wya the entire surface gets rounded as best as gravity will allow.

Rich

[lstmmrbls]

Rich, what color were the sulphides you worked on that were surface colored.. And if there were chips(I imagine so if being torched) did they appear clear in the chips. Often the old put them in water method will expose the fakery. And that link is for a paint not a die that goes into the glass at all. We are talking two different things as the paint methods(there are many) are rarely used on any surface that comes in contact with another surface as it is fairly easily marred and the coating revealed.Often even a pin will reveal a colored coating on glass. If you investigate dying glass you will find it to be a very complicated process and almost impossible to research.

[richsantaclaus]

The ones I remember were light purple, blue, dark brown and light green. I didn't take out my spectroscope to look at them, but I did put them into the dishwasher to clean them as best as I could. Then off to the workshop they went for repairing. IF another one comes my way, I'll look closer before repairing it and take pix for you all.

[JVVmarbles]

I polished several real colored base sulphides I found here in Europe and the entire base consisted of colored glass.

Marblealan told me an easy way to see if it's the real deal: the part of the figure further from the surface appears darker because there is more colored glass around it. In Clear sulphides with a colored coating the figure has the same clearness everywhere.

[hdesousa]

hdesousa - Fire polished means that the marble was reentered back into the flame to allow the heat to make the exterior surface area look as if were polished by a polishing wheel. Polishing a marble this way in no way removes ANY of the glass whatsoever. Glass, when heated back to a molten state, naturally wants to "go round." I also keep the punty turning to allow even glass flow during the fire polishing process - that wya the entire surface gets rounded as best as gravity will allow.

Rich

Rich,

Fire-polished may mean more than that to some sellers. I had asked the seller of those two marbles what he meant by "firepolished" in his description of the sulphides. He said you had worked on the marbles, removing bubbles from the figures. I only mention this because you had said in post #31 above " I always ask the owner to state that I have worked on the marble if ever they try to sell it. So far, each customer has honored my request." These were exceptions to your "rule", since you were not mentioned in the description. I have to stress that the seller was not trying to deceive anyone, but you may be mistaken when you think your restored marbles are always sold as having been restored by you.

[hdesousa]

Well Mark, I can only speak to the 10 or so that were colored and abused that i repaired. All of the 10 immediately went to clear glass as soon as the flame hit the outer surface. My best guess is that 150 years ago, someone did use colored glass to make sulphide marbles but going on looks alone, today, one can't tell (Maybe Galen can from his vast experience with colored glass sulphides verses outer chemical colored sulphides).

I believe my 21 years experience with torching various types of glass and working research with glass chemistry might not matter to some people with what I say about these type of marbles. Of course I am always trying to learn more. I wish I could answer your question about the population of true colored sulphide numbers of marbles but, alas, I can't. I know of no other way to test if it a real colored glass sulphide besides hitting it with a torch flame (after proper pre-work - don't do it by yourself please or it might explode!). If the color stays, it is real colored glass - if not, it was chemically treated. Personally, I wouldn't touch one if it didn't need repairing. Keep it as is and let the mystery continue!

Because today, we don't know what glass was used 150 years ago to make the sulphide under inspection, it is too risky to attempt to add more glass because of incompatible glass issues (COE = coefficient of expansion). So adding colored glass is not a method I would attempt. That said, IF I did know the glass WAS compatible, it can easily be added to the sulphide.

I wonder if a marble polisher might step in and add to the discussion. Have they ever attempted to repair a colored sulphide - and what happened? How far into the surface did they go? Far enough to remove the stained color part or was is still colored glass? Questions, questions, questions!

Rich

Rich,

More questions! (Please don't mind - just trying to sort out what you're saying)

1. Presumably the abused colored sulphides you works on had nicks and chips that penetrated the surface.

Before burning off the surface color, did you notice if the cavities were lined with color?

2. Were the 10 colored sulphides you repaired all of the same color? i.e. could they all have been sun-tinted? (purple)

Here's something interesting about colored glass, especially sun-tinting:

"Colorless glass actually does have more utility in dating and typing than most other colors, though still of limited application. Some of the better dating reliability is for bottles with manganese dioxide decolorized glass. Upon exposure to sunlight, this glass will turn a light pink or lavender to moderately dark amethyst or purple depending on the amount of manganese and amount of ultraviolet (UV) light. This is called "sun-purpled" or "sun colored amethyst " (SCA) glass."

http://www.sha.org/bottle/colors.htm

Anyone know if SCA is only on the surface and/or will easily burn off?

[hdesousa]

I polished several real colored base sulphides I found here in Europe and the entire base consisted of colored glass.

Marblealan told me an easy way to see if it's the real deal: the part of the figure further from the surface appears darker because there is more colored glass around it. In Clear sulphides with a colored coating the figure has the same clearness everywhere.

That is a neat, easy way of telling if the color is only on the surface.

If the applied layer of colored glass is fairly thick, here is another way that works for transparent marbles.

In a dark room, shine a fine sliver of light onto the marble, coming from an angle. I have used a slightly opened closet door with sunlight on the other side. It's the principle of the "slit-lamp", which ophthalmologists use to look at structures inside the eye. Looking only at the glass illuminated by the narrow beam, you can distinctly see the various layers of the marble, and any layer of colored glass will be seen.

[richsantaclaus]

No problem Sousa as I enjoy learning and sharing ideas. (Thanks JVV - good point!!!!)

1. I didn't take the time to look at the chipped parts because at that time, all I wanted to do is repair a colored sulphide and didn't have a reason to look closely. You bet if I ever get another one I will pay close attention to small details. I'll get out my spectroscope and check things out before any restoration.

2. Those were blue, light purple, dark brown and green. The light purple was the quickest to lose it's color when the flame hit it's surface. My guess was it wasn't sun colored purple. I have my mother's sugar jar that was clear and now is light purple and even dark purple is some places. There is a small chip near the rim where the lid goes and it's light purple to my eye.

Thanks for the sun dyed link - interesting!

I remember working on the marble on eBay but it was in the past so I don't remember the specific before look.

Because this is my hobby and a business, I don't keep copious notes on each and every repair but maybe I should start...lol!

[duffy]

[I'llhavethat1]

Interesting info in this thread. The part I'm having difficulty with is how the so-called color layer 'burns off' under a torch. To me that would indicate it's not really glass but some type of coating.

Looking at post #4, to get a colored layer of glass one would assume after it was added that the marble would need to be beat to sh!t for those types of chips. Whereas a thin coating could have been dipped or brushed on an already chipped/damaged marble to give that appearance. In-hand it might be a different story.

IMO if I sent a colored sulphide to be polished/fixed and it came back clear I'd be wondering what the heck happened

[BuckEye]

Great thread!

If someone wants to send me a colored sulphide i can inspect it in my slit lamp and give you results.....but it will cost you another colored sulphide lol.

Craig

[lstmmrbls]

Did all those faked colored sulphides come from one person??? It is amazing that 10 colored sulphides(all fakes) found there way to you Rich. Scary!

[richsantaclaus]

lol Galen - I have over 85 customers! Not all of the sulphides were "found" by me. 8 of the 10 were from different people. I hope this clarifies thnigs for you.

Craig - very funny!

Yes I'llhavethat1 - it is a colored covering on the sulphide.