Tolerances And Measurements

[clydetul62]

They all measured up. Who am I talking about? All the companies of course! Did you ever wonder what it meant for the size on the boxes? Sizes going 000, 00, 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4. Who made the rule that a peewee must be a 1/2" and shooter 3/4"? What I found out is that both those sizes isnt true. A size 000 is suppossed to be peewee. A 1/2" right? No. 2 should be 3/4" and a shooter. Both of these are not correct. Not according to companies tolerances. Everything that any company makes no matter the product has a tolerance. A tolerance is a unit of measurement. You buy something at the store you are more likely to not going to get the exact advertised size on the package because of the tolerance the company has for that particular product.

When my work started letting people work from home I got to enjoy my marbles a lot more. I would go through them more thoroughly. I also started measuring marbles in all the boxes I have. From all the companies. I was curious. Go ahead. Measure a few boxes and see what you will get. What you will get is +/- 1/64" tolerance for the size stated on the box. As a recent example of that peewee. When CAC made that and put it in a size 000 box it meant that those marbles in there were any where from 31/64-33/64" in size. The tolerance being 1/64" means that roughly 1/3 of them were 31/64", 1/3 were 1/2" and 1/3 were 33/64". Who made the rule that peewees must be exactly 1/2". CAC certainly didnt think so. And neither did any other company. Every box will have that tolerance. No matter what size it says on the box.. Who made the rule that shooters are 3/4"? At the nationals every year do they measure each marble in the ring is 5/8" and each shooter given out is exactly 3/4"? To be fair they should. The peewee rule should be changed to be up to 33/64" because that's what every company builds their tolerance around.

[Steph]

[mon]

I'm glad to hear you get paid for marble sorting! lol

I'm interested in the size of your sampling and data on them. A tolerance can be anything that does not effect fit, form or function. It could have the same tolerance in size +/- 1/64" or + 0.00" - 1/32" and be completely different. Also, your 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 is not true in that, they all could be one exact size anywhere within their tolerance. The better the operator the closer to the means a part will be.

[lstmmrbls]

It has been long established with "collectors" that a true peewee in "Collectors" Terms is 1/2" or under. It really does not matter what the manufacturers were attempting to accomplish when they used the peewee term IMO. There should be a line somewhere and 1/2" and under, has been it for a long time. Why try and reinvent the wheel. I think Peewee collectors will use the 1/2 and under line as once you start fudging every thing close will start getting called a peewee. The 1/2 and under rule has worked for years and will probably work for many more years. Lets hope so. This hobby is so full of assumption, hearsay, and mumble jumble already it is nice to have a hard and fast rule in place. Why contribute to even more confusion?

[Guest browse4antiques]

I don't think that the idea of a peewee marble has anything to do with the tolerances of packaged marbles. It's a term that was invented as a collectors' distinction. I believe the term arose first among handmade collectors. I have same-cane pairs for which one is under 1/2" and another is 9/16"+, and in fact there is usually a considerable variation in size along a cane of production. ... Roger

(I hadn't seen Galen's post when I posted this)

[mon]

I don't think that the idea of a peewee marble has anything to do with the tolerances of packaged marbles. It's a term that was invented as a collectors' distinction. I believe the term arose first among handmade collectors. I have same-cane pairs for which one is under 1/2" and another is 9/16"+, and in fact there is usually a considerable variation in size along a cane of production. ... Roger

(I hadn't seen Galen's post when I posted this)

Doesn't original packaging marked "peewee" make it a manufacturing term with tolerances? IMO the line has been drawn by the mfg. and what was their definition of a peewee should also be a collectors.

Say MFC peewee's are rare and their tolerance was +/- 1/64". What would you devalue your .510" marble compared to a .499" marble knowing both are rare?

[Guest browse4antiques]

I'm not aware of antique marbles that are labeled as "peewee" on the box. Are there such things? Just because some collectors draw a sharp distinction between marbles that are at or above 1/2", does not mean that there is any uniformity in how it would affect value. ... Roger

[mon]

Roger, if you check the thread "33/64" still considered a peewee" it shows a CAC box marked.

If a peewee by a mfg was rare and a marble made for a peewee box but was on the high side of the tolerance..over 1/2" .......it will fall into the common vane for collectors with the .5" and under definition.

[Steph]

For the record, the term "peewee" (or "peawee") was in use by 1883.

See "Marbles and Where They Come From," by A.W. Roberts.

They're "no larger than a good-sized marrowfat pea".

[clydetul62]

Yes, Mon I thought it was nice that I got paid while enjoying marbles was nice. I did the measurements because at the time I was bored. It was something to do. When I got a box I sorted by patterns. The best ones went first row etc. What made me measure was by that sometimes the row didnt fit right. So, I measured to see why. I didnt know what to expect. It surprised me that it was pretty much across the board. I did my 9/16" and 5/8" boxes first because I had just got a couple new ones and they were readily at hand. It wasnt until I got a No. 2 box that I discovered that +/- 1/64 was across the board. I raised the peewee question and shooter question because that's where size is suppossed to matter.

As to value for some companies peewee are more rare than others. CAC is rare for any opaque or guinea. Their slags are very HTF. Akro is the same. Peltier unless it's a patch you better grab it. MK their peewees are easier to find. Any type of CAC, Akro, or Pelt unless a patch, I will grab anytime. A 33/64" will not bother me at all. The value for those companies except Marble King, IMO doesnt devalue the marble at 33/64". Now at 17/32" forget it. That is different and too big to qualify.

[3oranges]

Peewee collecting is very difficult with the 1/2" rule. I bought Gage Blocks to make sure my calipers are accurate and most marbles listed at 1/2" are not really 1/2" Since sending back the CAC I have concluded that I should have kept it as my smallest CAC and will do this with other makers as well. I have my smallest Akros but have yet to find one at or under 1/2" that has not been polished down. Does anyone have an Akro Peewee that has not been polished down to that size? I honestly did not think you even could polish marbles that small. An interesting auction to note:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marbles-Rare-Wet-Mint-1-2-Akro-Agate-Peewee-Sparkler-w-360-Degrees-of-Color-/330882652379?pt=Marbles&hash=item4d0a2498db

It has that polished look but hard to tell without a loop. I DESPISE polishing of marbles by the way.

Granted, I will still have my PeeWee collection that is absolutely 1/2" or less but with machine mades I am adding the "Smallest of my" title to future marbles. Maybe just an excuse to collect more marbles

[zaboo]

Does anyone have an Akro Peewee that has not been polished down to that size?

yes.. I will find it and send it to you.. no charge.

[ann]

An interesting auction to note:

http://www.ebay.com/...=item4d0a2498db

It has that polished look but hard to tell without a loop. I DESPISE polishing of marbles by the way.

I (sort of) know that seller (runnerman18), and although I don't know him well enough to unreservedly vouch for him, I believe that he would never knowingly sell a polished marble without stating that it was polished. Maybe an inquiring email to him would help. Also, he's an Akro collector, FWIW . . .

[clydetul62]

The 1/2" is very hard to adhere with some companies with out hitting that 1/64". Yes, I have a few akro corks as well a one milky oxblood, that are possibly not polished down. As well as CAC, Pelt, Alley, MK and handmade. I recently added a Pelt peewee wasp. VHTF. I have been collecting for 14 years. Peewees were my first love so its not very often I get to add to it. My hardest handmade is a faceted green transparent base with yellow swirls, "Leighton" style. Bob Block sold it to me about 10 years ago.