winnie Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Think it's a strange name for a marble. There are Japanese-German and American transitionals but only the foreign ones are given that name. Moreover the transparant and the opaques are both called transitionals,thats what strikes me the most,it's confusing. IMO the transparant ones are handgathered slags. The opaques,also handgathered,deserve a better name,it's own name.Any thoughts? Here's an example of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 It seems to me the term transitional would be used for handgathered but machine rounded marbles no matter what the type of glass. For some reason the term is used for handmade marbles also. You are correct in the fact we do not call the later American made handgathered slags transitionals although they truly are. IMO. Rough cutoffs seem to determine whether we use the term Transitional or not. Very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie Posted September 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 If rough cutoffs are the criterion why both these type's are called transitionals,than 1/3 of the marbles showed here have no name at all,because they don't have visible cutoffs,they have a smooth surface,thats also a bit strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 It seems to me the term transitional would be used for handgathered but machine rounded marbles no matter what the type of glass. This has been my understanding too. Also regardless of the type of pontil. But it's a term that has not always been applied consistantly. Admittedly there are problems with it when applied (as it sometimes is) to ground-pontil, melted-pontil and regular pontil slags and opaques, some of which were not machine rounded, and so forth and so on, as far as issues go . . . I've been trying to avoid the term lately, and just use the pontil descriptor instead. Not entirely satisfactory, though. Would love to hear some good, rational ideas! (Nice marbles Winnie!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Yes it is strange that the ones that are smooth just get called handgathered. I would guess that people originally thought the rough cutoffs were actually pontil marks and not shear marks. And they then figured the all smooth types had no pontil rod attached?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffy Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 those are awesome pics ,winnie...thanks for postin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Yes it is strange that the ones that are smooth just get called handgathered. I would guess that people originally thought the rough cutoffs were actually pontil marks and not shear marks. And they then figured the all smooth types had no pontil rod attached?? And as long as we're whining (at least I'm whining, not speaking for anyone else), why aren't MFC slags called transitionals, when assuredly they are, by the "handgathered but machine rounded" definition? Is it just that we need these kinds of names (like "West Virginia swirl") if we don't (yet) have a specific company to attribute them to? Maybe as we learn more about the marbles from Navarre, Barberton, etc. (as well as other marbles that sometimes get called transitionals) the term "transitional" will begin to fade? (Like "WV swirl" being replaced by Alley, Heaton, Ravenswood, etc., as we learned to distinguish them from each other.) I don't know. Seems like it would be a useful term -- if it were consistantly applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 MFC Pelt CAC Akro all made transitionals IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBlock Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 The term Transitional first originated in print in one of the early Castle and Peterson books (though it had been thrown around at marble shows for a few years before that). I carried the nomenclature over into the Price Guide and the Early American Machine Mades books. Obviously we know a lot more now than we did 25 years ago, but unfortunately the name and category has stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 MFC Pelt CAC Akro all made transitionals IMO. IMO too, and I like them quite a bit, and have MFC, Pelt, and Akro ones. But I don't have a CAC one so I think you should give me one of your CAC examples 'cause you have a bunch and I don't have any. Never hurts to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 . . . but unfortunately the name and category has stuck. Do you think it could still have some usefulness as a term? If we could clarify the meaning somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie Posted September 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 The ones i have posted do not have pontils they have shear marks,not always visible,so they've nothing to do with the regular-ground or melted pontil ones,they're a different type,made probable in Germany-Japan and maybe Canada. Before i join the marble forums,i used to call the transparant ones handgathered slags and the opaques handgathered swirls. Well i didn't know then that the same marble type's were made in different countries,one can put the country of origin before the name. How about that,or are those names already given away for another type? Oh yes,i know as long as they're mine,i may call them whatever i like LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaMarble Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 I agree with Galen's thoughts in that a transitional is a marble that was hand gathered and made spherical using a machine. This process was in "transition" or in between making marbles solely by hand and making them with a fully automated machine that included a feeding system. My opinion is that the type of cutoff should no longer mandate whether we consider a marble to be a transitional or not - I think the only real requirement is that it must be hand gathered and finished via a machine. Thoughts? Changing the nomenclature amongst a diverse group of collectors is never easy especially when a thought or term has been gospel for so long. I have seen Galen try to repeatedly educate folks on why the Miller machine had nothing to do with the pattern on early Peltier marbles but they still get called "Millers", including by myself. I know that the machine had nothing to do with the pattern, but when let's face it - when someone says "Miller" you know exactly what it means. Great discussion topic by the way and I'm glad to see that it stayed peaceful This board seems to be getting a bit more active as of late and as long as we can keep an open forum like this discussion was I believe it will attract even more folks to the table, or.... keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Education is working fairly well on the term Leighton, So lets just keep at it. Change is probably the most difficult thing humans have to deal with. It will take time, especially with so many of us old timers in the hobby(LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Education is working a bit on the term Leighton, So lets just keep at it. I'm game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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