Steph Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Speak your piece and show your treasures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfish Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 I thought it was only a SIZE thing? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Good Morning Gang,,, A new day and a new attitude... Steph, I apologize for raising hell yesterday and for anything I said to offend you... Just that all my buttons were being pushed in a sequence to set me off... Now let's see if this thread works out a little better... This is the mib that started the quagmire... Slightly under 5/8" Dia. I purchased this mib for $37.00 identified as a "Vitro Pink Elite Parakeet"... The guy I got it from is a reputable dealer and a member of this board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Steph, would you please repost the quotes from Ron Shepherd & Blaine Lemon??? Seems to be the only factual thing we have to go on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted May 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 I appreciated Edna's answer in that other thread and would like it if she would reconstruct it here. In a compact way it refers to different conventions and traditions which have been in use by collectors. Here are those quotes from Ron: I will do this again for an old friend,who always looked me up at the local shows. Blaine Lemon was plant manager for Vitro Parkersburg for many years, before Louie Moore. Everytime i saw Blaine he had four to six parrots in his bib overall pocket,and he was proud to show them. The parrots were his favorite Vitro marble. I ask Blaine what was a true parrot. He answered Quote"For a parrot our goal was a white base with FOUR colors on the surface with no white showing,but that is difficult, so many had some white showing. White was not one of the four colors because it is the base color. " Many of the parrots only ended up with three colors because the fourth color of glass in the tank would run out or go empty,thus a three color shooter. When the third color ran out,then it was a two color shooter.Just because a color ran out in the tank or furnace due to,amount of colored glass,temp,feeding problems,etc,the machine and tank was not stopped or shut down,it would just be swithced to another type,style,color,etc. This switch is where the unusual or odd marbles happens and makes them difficult to ID. During the switch there may be a gallon of marbles made or twenty gallon,depending on how long it takes to get everthing correct,(temp,flow,cutters,rolls,etc) for the type glass or marble wanted. Most of these marbles ended up in the ground at or near the site. Although several of these marbles during switches would be super good,colors and patterns mixing,but almost always were unable to duplicate it again. Very little 100% dealing with marbles,24hr. shifts,and cheap labor without quality controls,especially night shifts. For Blaine and myself a Vitro parrot will be four colors and not include white,and the best ones will have no white showing. The aventurine in some parrots was not a requirement or intentional. It sometimes came from the cullet being used,or a previous run. These were marbles for PLAY, for children and at the lowest price possible,with what was avialable at that particular week or month. Blaine Lemon deceased Thanks Blaine Ron S. Parrots-again,what Blaine Lemon told me. He was Vitro plant manager and parrots were his favorite marble. He always had them in his bib overall pockets. Blaine said his goal was a 1 inch four color marble not including white,but 100% coverage did not always happen. Some would have the white base showing. Some parrots are patch pattern and some in the bigger sizes are swirl pattern. Some will have white and some will not. Many people include white as one of the colors (thats fine with me). For me a good parrot will show no white and have 4 colors. Sizes range from 3/4 to 1 inch. If the green has aventurine that is another plus. The parakeets are the same type marble,same colors,most all patch type,same looks,just smaller size 5/8-9/16-11/16. The is not much mistake about id of a good parrot or parakeet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted May 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 This is the mib that started the quagmire... Slightly under 5/8" Dia. I purchased this mib for $37.00 identified as a "Vitro Pink Elite Parakeet"... The guy I got it from is a reputable dealer and a member of this board... What might have happened is that perhaps the seller posted this marble or a similar one here for ID. If one board member said "parakeet", and another said "Vitro elite", the seller may have combined the names in his ID. He might even have posted it on more than one board and might have combined the input from the various sites. I think many interesting ebay names might arise from that type of board exchange. Once we've given our opinions on it, the seller of the marble has to make his best judgement of how to list it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pene-lope Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Are there base colors for parrots. The one I have that is supposed to be a parrot, but is really too small is a lavendery pink with sky blue which seems to be translucent over white, and a funny mustardy greenish yellow. I will try to get a photo, but both my skills and camera suck. Pen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Chamberlain Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 This is a thread progression at its very best. I think what should be highlighted is Ron's statement that some Parrots can be patch pattern and larger Parrots swirl pattern. I'd always thought of Parrots as strictly being random swirl pattern. It would seem quite natural to call a smaller Parrot-like Vitro marble a Parakeet and I can see where the 5/8" example shown here would easily accumulate a four word name when we are attempting more and more to tie down these little devils. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Here are 5 recently aquired "Parrots"... So recent I haven't even gotten them yet... They should be in my mail today... I have three more "Parrots" in my stash, 2 of which I found yesterday, and 1 is still playing hide-n-seek with me... All 8 of the "Parrots" are 1" Dia. the 5 in the photo all have some of the white base showing... The 2 I located yesterday have NO white base showing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Good Morning Gang,,, A new day and a new attitude... Steph, I apologize for raising hell yesterday and for anything I said to offend you... Just that all my buttons were being pushed in a sequence to set me off... Now let's see if this thread works out a little better... This is the mib that started the quagmire... Slightly under 5/8" Dia. I purchased this mib for $37.00 identified as a "Vitro Pink Elite Parakeet"... The guy I got it from is a reputable dealer and a member of this board... I sent these photos to "Marblealan" yesterday... Told Alan I purchased this mib as being a "Vitro Pink Elite Parakeet"... He said he had never heard that description before... However the style of marble he has seen before but was unable to put a name to them such as (Tiger Eye, Conquerer, Helmet, etc)... Alan could not confirm what kind of Vitro it is... Hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted May 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 I sent these photos to "Marblealan" yesterday... Told Alan I purchased this mib as being a "Vitro Pink Elite Parakeet"... He said he had never heard that description before... However the style of marble he has seen before but was unable to put a name to them such as (Tiger Eye, Conquerer, Helmet, etc)... Alan could not confirm what kind of Vitro it is... Hmmmm Not every marble has a name. But people want names. That's another cause of imaginative names. There's an appetite for them. I'll go ahead and add my best guess for what your marble is. My best guess is that it is a marble which Vitro would have called a Tri-Lite in the 1930's. And then some collectors in the 2000's would have called it an Elite, "Elite" being a name for particularly colorful Tri-Lites. That's my guess. If I'm wrong, I'll live. Pen, my understanding is that Parrots are a white-based marble and the goal of the creators was to cover the white as much as possible. Sometimes white shows through, sometimes not. The colors used to cover the white are sometimes transparent. My parrot knowledge is mostly theoretical though. I only own one of them. I'll step aside now and let people who have more speak up. One more thing before I fade, it would be good to remember that not every white-based 4-color Vitro shooter is a parrot, even in the 1" range. *entering watch mode* -s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfish Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 SO the whole drama is not about the definition of a Parrot/parakeet, as that is pretty darn clear. Its about you buying a marble with some super-outrageous name?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 SO the whole drama is not about the definition of a Parrot/parakeet, as that is pretty darn clear. Its about you buying a marble with some super-outrageous name?????????? What it is all about to me is seeing a "Parakeet"... Why is it no one has posted a photo of a "Parakeet"??? We know they exist!!! Where are they??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m!b$ Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 At least two of the marbles in post #9 are not Parrots because they have too much white. I used to have a 5/8" Parakeet, but not anymore. I also used to have about a dozen 3/4" Parakeets. They all had little, if any, white. Parrots are always opaque, though some of the colors can have some translucency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 the names of parrots and parakeets and parrotlets (possibly spelled parrotlettes) are regional. Get it! It depends on where you live and the particular collector. Some collectors do not consider the marble a parrot unless the white is totally covered. I am not one of those. I have both kinds. Some do not consider the marble a parrot unless it has green aventurine in it. I am not one of those. I looked for 40 minutes this morning at my tigereyes and other vitro marbles looking for the two marbles I know as parrotlets and I know they are tigereyes. I have yet to find them... like looking for a needle in a haystack. I have no more time this week for the search. Please understand I am not disputing Blaine Lemon and Ron Shepherd. I have the utmost respect for Ron Shepherd and when he says Mr. Lemon told him he made parrots in 3/4 and 1 inch sizes, I accept that. However, I'm old (almost 72), been collecting 18 years, and bought my 3/4 inch parrots as parakeets. They are my marbles. People where I buy, shop, sell - call them parakeets. I will continue to call my marbles parakeets. If you are "new" learn the new info presented by Ron. They are properly called parrots. Maybe parakeets and parrolets only occur in certain regions of the country. Maybe, just maybe... the marbles are the same. I think because I can't find my parrotlets that I have come to know as tigereyes that they are tigereyes and I recognize them as such and no longer can pick them out as parrotlets. As soon as I upload my pics to a host, I'll post them here. I won't argue about them. There is nothing to argue about. You decide what your marbles are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleus1 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Caint be no clearer I concur. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 These are MY parrots. All are one inch and all have at least 4 colors. Some have green aventurine, some have white showing. the bottom left marble has rolled over and you can only see 2 colors, but trust me, the colors missing to qualify for parrot are on the other side. Parakeets coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 These are MY parakeets. some have white showing, some have aventurine, all have 4 or more colors. They are 3/4 inch marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 This is a one inch tigereye. I have posted this example to show you the cause of some of the problem. One day while studying his tigereyes and parrots, Randy Gossett noticed something. He called the Brandstetters and told them his thoughts. The Brandstetters agreed with Randy. I will try to describe for you using this example, what Randy discovered. Glass is soft and the larger the marble, the more the soft hot glass moves around. On 5/8 marbles the tigereye look is very clean. In the case of the colors of the above marble, the eye is blue and it is surrounded by a yellow ribbon and an orange ribbon. Notice how the ribbons have moved in the rolling of the large marble and also in the glass stream coming out of the tank and going through the cutting mechanism. Now imagine if a 4th color were added to this marble and the machine operator was purposely causing more swirling. You would have a parrot. Now don't argue or accuse me. I hate it when you guys do this. It's not my idea, but it seems possible to me that parrots are a type of tigereye. You would have to ask Randy or the Brandstetters if the time line would support this idea. I got it from them and I don't think they would pass on misinformation. At the least, it's possible, it's a theory. Next, I want to show you some that are difficult to identify as patches or tigereyes. Some of them could be either or. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 These marbles are 3/4 inch. sometimes they are described as patches, sometimes as tigereyes. The problem is that if you are advanced in collecting vitro, you can roll this marble around in your hand and see an eye and 2 ribbons. Some have no white showing. Others look like patch marbles. They have some variations caused in the making of them. These are in the bright parrot colors and have very little swirling. So what are they? They're mine and I call "tigereye". Some of these have been passed off as parakeets. They are not. IMO It grates on me to add that IMO. If I say it .... it is my opinion. I do not consider myself infallible, especially concerning marbles. 18 years does not make me an expert or a know it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 this is the same marble in 5/8 inch size. The ribbons are wider than a lot of tigereye ribbons are. White shows in all of them. They are tigereyes. I hope this helps. If it stirs up a hornets nest, I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Good Morning Gang,,, A new day and a new attitude... Steph, I apologize for raising hell yesterday and for anything I said to offend you... Just that all my buttons were being pushed in a sequence to set me off... Now let's see if this thread works out a little better... This is the mib that started the quagmire... Slightly under 5/8" Dia. I purchased this mib for $37.00 identified as a "Vitro Pink Elite Parakeet"... The guy I got it from is a reputable dealer and a member of this board... Kingfisher, I can't see the thready white glass in your pics that would tell me your above marble is an elite or trilite. (two names for same marble) If the thready white glass is not there, I would call your beautiful marble a "fancy tigereye". I can see a pink eye and several ribbons. When there are 3 or 4 ribbons, two on each side of different colors, your marble qualifies for the term "fancy". I'd spend $37 on it. Great marble. Edna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 the names of parrots and parakeets and parrotlets (possibly spelled parrotlettes) are regional. Get it! It depends on where you live and the particular collector. Some collectors do not consider the marble a parrot unless the white is totally covered. I am not one of those. I have both kinds. Some do not consider the marble a parrot unless it has green aventurine in it. I am not one of those. I looked for 40 minutes this morning at my tigereyes and other vitro marbles looking for the two marbles I know as parrotlets and I know they are tigereyes. I have yet to find them... like looking for a needle in a haystack. I have no more time this week for the search. Please understand I am not disputing Blaine Lemon and Ron Shepherd. I have the utmost respect for Ron Shepherd and when he says Mr. Lemon told him he made parrots in 3/4 and 1 inch sizes, I accept that. However, I'm old (almost 72), been collecting 18 years, and bought my 3/4 inch parrots as parakeets. They are my marbles. People where I buy, shop, sell - call them parakeets. I will continue to call my marbles parakeets. If you are "new" learn the new info presented by Ron. They are properly called parrots. Maybe parakeets and parrolets only occur in certain regions of the country. Maybe, just maybe... the marbles are the same. I think because I can't find my parrotlets that I have come to know as tigereyes that they are tigereyes and I recognize them as such and no longer can pick them out as parrotlets. As soon as I upload my pics to a host, I'll post them here. I won't argue about them. There is nothing to argue about. You decide what your marbles are. Got it!!! It's understandable now... Do you have any in the 9/16, 5/8 range??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 I don't have any in 9/16 or 5/8 inch range that look like my one inch or 3/4 inch. The small ones I have that were represented as parrotlets or parakeets are tigereyes. I can't pick out a patch parrot in my whole collection. All are swirls. Maybe there weren't many made and they didn't get to Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Thank-You Edna you've been the biggest help so far... And the white on that marble is not a whispy white more at opaque... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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