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An old friend of mine and I measure the milage on our occasional tears around the country by how many times Clapton's "Layla" album plays. For instance, Grand Rapids is three Laylas from Chicago . . .

So you'll send all you find that are like it to me, right?

OK, kbobam! Just for you. So. In general, most people hear the word "apocalypse" and think end of the world, the earth cracking open, fire from the sky, plagues of flies, and whatnot. But the thing is, it doesn't mean that. This bothered me in a general grumbling-under-my-breath kind of way, but it REALLY norked off my linguist friend. So I would just pat him on the hand whenever it came up (like when watching history and science channels on TV) and leave it at that. I thought it was so entrenched as a meaning that it would be hopeless to struggle . . . . Then, Mel Gibson came out with this movie he called "Apocalypto," and a voice-over preview for it said something like "Apocalypto . . . means a new beginning." That tore it. Ass#ole. Apocalypse is from the Greek apokalypsis . . . to UNVEIL, to uncover, to reveal. All that asteroids falling / armies marching / horsemen loose on redblackwhitepale horses stuff was what the John who wrote "Revelations" saw. During his apocalyptic experience. Moses also had an apocalyptic experience (in which the 10 commandments were revealed to him). Many others have as well --wandering around in a desert for a good while seems like a fairly reliable trigger. But you don't even have to be a Christian to have an apocalyptic experience. I won't even go into the LSD25 thing. Ahem. So really, when, for instance, you say "the four horsemen of the apocalypse," you're really saying "the four horsemen of John's vision in Revelations," not "the four horsemen that herald the end of the world." Unless, of course they really do appear to us all on a physical plane, in which case all bets are off.

I don't think the purple "maglight" base is as unusual as people once thought, but I also don't thinkt it could be called common. It's still a very happy surprise to me when I backlight an indian and the purple lights up. Sometimes I cheer. If no one's around.

I'm a little confused. I don't know that anybody here is arguing that the original marble at the start of this thread is Heaton. Maybe I missed that. The best I can make out, the discussion, such as it was, was about whether or not Heaton made marbles with oxblood, either accidentally or deliberately -- although I don't know who can read the minds of the Heaton glassmakers at this point in time. Not me, anyway. And at the risk of being egged, I should also point out that several people have written very knowledgeably about oxblood (including Brian Graham, who makes it, and Steve Sturtz, in one of his JABO books, with pretty good photographs). And I understand that opinions are opinions, but you can't really argue with chemistry. I have the MFC formulas for oxblood if anyone wants them. And are Dave's IDs 100% correct? And are yours? Of course not. But Ron, honestly, Dave made the marbles at Champion. Would I take his opinion over yours in this case? Well, yes. I wish there were less talk about how lousy marble books are and more talk about producing a good one. But nearly all of them have something to offer the student. And they are available. Individual, knowledgable people who don't publish their work are not so available. So the rest of us peons out here just have to do the best we can with what we have.

I understand that there has long been a kerfluffel over oxblood -- but I think I gotta go with Zaboo here about what oxblood is or is not. I believe it's pretty much a duck. I don't think it matters whether a company produced it deliberately or accidentally. Either way, particular mixes of colorants, minerals, metals, etc. under certain conditions (reduction or smothering atmosphere, to a greater or lesser degree, etc.) will give you what most people call oxblood. Oxblood and pigeon blood go back through ceramics, too -- the Chinese were the first that I know of to use an oxblood glaze. Seems to me I remember it being in the early 1200s -- but I can check if anyone wants to know. " I see you did not include Akro in frustrating white-based marbles with transparent aqua or green glass accompained by oxblood. Is it white base marbles that frustate you or just those worthless junk WV swirls ? Many of those are colored base and some are clear base. I am living and i can tell some marbles apart." As far as those frustrating white-based marbles with aqua or green striping and oxblood go -- did I not say I have a bunch of them? I only have bunches of the marbles I like. And why should I include Akro in that class of marbles? Never seen an Akro with the color combo we're talking about. Post it if you got it. And, I too have shown my bunch to well-known collectors. None of them pretended they could ID most of them -- but it was Dave McCullough who picked two out as being Champion, so I'm goin' with him for the time being on those. I'd love it if you'd post a primer on how to distinguish one company's from another. And, well, you know I can't help but say that since the majority of marble sites were not scientifically excavated, one should be cautious in drawing conclusions. Just because a particular type has never been found at a place does not categorically eliminate it Maybe it just hasn't been found YET. Or none were dumped. Or whatever. I think EVERYBODY needs to remain open minded.

Yep. That's an Alley bacon. I mean, what else would you call it? The crazily-named subject of this thread, however, is not, nor is it a calligrapht marble, either. It could be by any one of the companies that made those frustrating white-based marbles with transparent aqua or green glass accompanied by oxblood. Alley made some, so did Heaton. Maybe Cairo, too, Ernie. I've been told that Ravenswood made a few, and so did Champion. Is there anyone living who can tell them apart? I have a bunch. Do I sound desperate?

I'm no expert, Winnie, but I'm not sure the colored bands are as raised as they are on most Indians I've seen. But it could be the pictures. Do they feel raised from the surface? For a while I tracked down Indians with different-colored bases, and they're more variable than we expect them to be, I think. There's the usual black base, and the "maglight" deep purple, but there are others that look black until you backlight them, when they reveal themselves to be dark green, or a kind of ultramarine blue, like yours, or even amber. I don't know if people consider those "maglights" as well, but I have them all together with my standard black-based Indians. It makes kind of a nice group.

Speaking of words. I have several pet peeves involving the use of some of them. Call me a pedantic old fuddy duddy. I DON'T CARE. For a recent example: it seems to have become fashionable over the last decade for television announcers, during the Olympics, to say in a very grand voice, "Welcome to the games of the twenty-second Olympiad," instead of just saying "Welcome to the 22nd Olympic Games." Or just "Welcome to the 22nd Olympics." So there aren't that many people who have spent an inordinate amount of time studying the deep past in other parts of the world, OK, I know that, and "22nd Olympiad" sounds more serious than "the 22nd Olympic Games." I get it. But I am one of those people, and so are a few of my equally annoyed friends. You see, to the ancient Greeks, an Olympiad was the four-year interval between Olympic Games. It's how they measured time. You have your Games. Then you have your Olympiad, Then you have your Games. Then you have your Olympiad. What you do NOT have is Olympic Games in an Olympiad. No "Games of the 22nd Olympiad," or of any other Olympiad, for that matter. Drives me freakin' crazy. I feel better now. Maybe later I'll bring up "apocolypse."

It comes from the Italian word aventura, more-or-less meaning "by adventure," Basically, by mistake. It was an accidental discovery by an Italian glassmaster back in the 1600s. I forget the exact date. I'm old. There might be 2 Vs in the Italian, too. I forget that as well. I haven't spoken or read Italian since, ah, 1978. Or thereabouts.

It grates me that people call the aventurine found on German cane-cut marbles Lutz.

The purple ones I have that were dug at the Akro site are a good bit darker than those in Hansel's box -- was there a fair variety in the Akro HG purple opaques? (I haven't seen enough of them to know.) Were any darker purple ones found at MFC, or were they all pastel? I forgot you had some of those pieces/parts! Now I remember a pic of those bright yellow ones. Getting older and older . . .

I want it. I need it. My avatar marble needs it. They need to be together forever. You need to send it to me right away. I'm going to hold my breath until I turn blue. I'll think of some more stuff, gimme a minute . . .

Yeow! I particularly like the first one!

OK, looks like cadmium was used as a glass colorant as early as the 1860s, so no issue with bright yellow (as opposed to pastel / "egg yolk" yellow or a darker mustard-y yellow) for MFC. That's earlier than my increasingly faltering memory remembered . . .

I'd forgotten about those -- I hadn't read the box ones, but his "The End of the Slag" made a light bulb go off in my head back when I first got into slags . . . got to go read the box ones now . . .

Also finding yourself suddenly capable of not caring anymore about an alarming number of things you used to care about. Right there with you.

That got me going last night, rooting around for my Cohill book ( . . . and the Perfect Glass Ball Machine), which I finally unearthed. The surviving records seem pretty detailed, with Cohill saying that some of the more unique MFC examples can be pinned down to a particular day, and in some cases to a particular pair of glassworkers. So I don't know that there's enough wiggle room there to account for all of the HG oddities that came out of the ground at Akro. But some -- like you say, maybe, for sure. Why wouldn't they, if some were in the "whatever's left" Akro purchase? Hansel, in that last box -- is that yellow as bright as it seems in the pic? Wow. Not sure I would have expected that from early Akro, much less MFC. Got to go back and find out when they started using cadmium as a yellow colorant. Unless one of you guys just knows, off the top of your head. I don't.

Just want to confirm this, from my own knowledge.

Yep -- that's why I was curious about the baby blue being fluorescent or not. I have a nice HG one, but have been told it's Akro and not MFC because it's (very) fluorescent. I have a single much-cherished non-fluorescent MFC (from Alan B back in the day) but don't know how much weight to give any minor differences in color between those two, since color could vary somewhat from batch to batch. Especially with MFC, or so I've heard/read/been told. Never thought of Akro's early use of MFC marbles in connection with these solid-color HG types. Good point, Galen. I'd assume the purples would be Akro, given that MFC purples are rare? Or heck, maybe not. All the examples I have are dug (3 or 4 purples, a couple of different greens, a couple of different reds), and have that peculiar very fine surface striation of HG marbles that have come out of the ground at Akro. Do the blue ones (or any of them) fluoresce, Hansel?

Yup. You did. It's OK. You're not the only one. Check out his other marbles. There are many that will break your heart!

Wow -- me neither. Do the solid-colored ones (the purples especially) look handgathered? That's the first box I've seen (not that I'm particularly knowledgeable about boxes -- I'm not) that looks like it might have some of those solid-colored hangathered Akros that I've only seen from digs. Nice! P.S. The baby blue ones wouldn't be fluorescent, would they? (Holding breath)

Candy bars have been doing this fir years. OK, the Heath Bars of my youth were never huge, but . . . then they started making them in 2 pieces, for "convenience." And so on. Just venting.

I don't even want to think about missing this.

Laughing WITH you Galen, WITH you! Eurobursts! Steph, that's inspired. I'm on board!