Scoop

Mannnnnn, that's awesome!!!! :Emoticon-jawdrop:

It's tough to tell exactly what that core is... Is it solid color (transparent & opague) all the way around?? Or, are there openings in it? If it is solid, it's kind've unique... I don't know that there is a huge collector base. But, I know one guy in Maine who looks for them and calls them "Tiffany Windows...."

I agree with Hansel on that one... The one to the right of it is no slouch, either!!! Chinas have always been one of my favorite areas. Yours are beautiful, Scott

ROFLMAO!!! Mary, for some reason, the randomness of that emoticon is hilarious!!! Thanks!!! :icon_lmao:

'Sorry Rick... I have no friggin' idea what your trying to say.... I feel as though I've been set up by you, to take on this battle for which I have no reason or interest in fighting... I stepped in without an opinion on the marble, but defending Alan for his title, based on a fact that we ALL know to be true.... Yes, when he knows there will be split decisions about a marble he takes the low road to avoid being accused of calling it something more than it is.... Apparently this works for him... He is, after all, pretty successful.... Because I said collectors have more flexibility in their ID's, you made a reference then, to collectors taking liberties about calling what they buy a Superboy and what they keep in their collections a Superman?? It was also "kind of" directed at me.... As if I might do that..... My point was, "Who cares??" The fact that I only own one beat up superman that is in a bag, somewhere in my garage, says I certainly don't care..... In the process, with your cynical attitude, you've managed to get a bunch of board members wound up with their panties in a wad for NOTHING.... Everyone who isn't involved, is sitting, rolling their eyes and wondering what the hell it is that your trying to "insinuate..." NOW???? You know I like you, Rick.... But, this is the kinda crap that I thought we got rid of last fall.... Please don't bring it back....

Thanks Roger!! I respect your opinion and I very much respect that you can bury this... Whatever we call it, I know we're both on the same side when we say it's a magnificent marble.... That's all that matters!!

Tim, those look great too!! I think if they were mine, I might brighten them just a little bit... Here's one of yours from above, run through the round cropping program of "Picture It 7.0" I also brightened it just a teeny bit... Picture it came with our computer, from Dell... I've heard it's pricey to buy, but check and see if it may already be in your program files. This is from the newer batch... Brightened, with a dash of contrast...

Holy Crap, Rick!!! Is that a triple ingot??? How incredibly :cool sign: is that???

Ooops, Roger, I'm sorry again... For some reason your picture didn't open on your post and I thought you were using a second ID.... My Bad....

Whoa, Whoa... Roger.... See... Your getting MAD... That's what I'm talking about!!! WHY??? Do you enjoy being mad?? Your trying very hard to make me mad... But, it isn't working!! I think your reaction is hysterical for someone who collects toys... THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!!!!!!! I'm so sorry.... My mentioning Nazi to the conversation has NOTHING to do with the politics of Nazi... Except that it is a very serious subject... It's the most serious subject I can imagine anyone having a collection of.... Most likely producing some VERY serious people as collectors... I was thinking it was about as opposite from marbles as could be possible. We may collect seriously... But, do we have to BE so serious??? Of COURSE we look forward to marble mail!! If I go to a show and come back with something awesome, I'm high for a week!!! No, of course I wouldn't want anyone throwing my marbles around... That was Bo... I love Bo dearly... But, making a comment like that, I feel much more secure with him in Arizona and me in NH... He also calls that marble a Superman!!! (Tsk.... ROFLMAO) Bo & I talk weekly... if not more... Do you suppose we're going to fight about that marble?? He thinks it's a man, I think it's a boy... Will that destroy our relationship??? Is it destroying my relationship with YOU??? WHY?? I've always liked you... I value your opinion. I do understand why you would call the marble a Superman... I just disagree with it... Sooooo, we can't be friends anymore?? We can't just say... "Hey, this is what I think and that is what you think... Period." and let it go?? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, by the way.... Having duel ID's on this board is taboo... It's Lou's law, so I'll let Lou take care of it. But, I want to give you the "Heads Up" on that. Scott, that is one FABULOUS "huge mint boulder tri-color Millers swirl! CONGRATULATIONS!! LOL @ Galen!!! (I sure hope that was a Vacor!!)

Wow..... This is wild!!!! Last night, I was thinking about "serious" and how it applies to marble collecting... Nope... Couldn't do it.... Then, I was thinking about collectors who CAN be serious.... The first thing that came to my mind was... There are people who collect Nazi memorabilia... THEY can be serious!!!! Oh Yeah.... They can. A friend of my daughter's is staying with us... This morning, we watched "American Beauty"..... In the move, a kid shows his girlfriend a plate that her father has in his military collection, with a swastika on the back.... I thought, "Oh My GOD!!!!" How bizarre is that??? I was just thinking about that, last night... There's another spot in the movie where the main character tries to bring back the "life" of their totally "lost" marriage.... She ALMOST dissolved into it.... Until she realized he was about to spill beer on her four thousand dollar silk sofa..... Ending the "moment....." I can see the "This is just "stuff" point... As well as I can see the "OMG, this is a four thousand dollar sofa!!!!" point.... I have to wonder why he just couldn't put the bottle down and continue.... ????? His not caring about the sofa was her issue.... Her caring about the sofa was his issue.... They were doomed...... Roger... Bo is basically right about me... I really don't care that much about machine made marbles... BUT, I do really care about terminologies.... Superman had a blue suit, with a red shield and yellow lettering... A Superman marble is a blue base with red and yellow..... Tell me... Look SERIOUSLY at that marble and show me where there is a distinct yellow on it??? You can not... Because there is not..... End of story. So, now what do we do??? In your heart, you believe it is a Superman.... In my heart, I believe it is not. You have spent over a thousand dollars on a single marble... I will NEVER spent a thousand dollars on a single marble.... Even if I could afford it.... So, I've collected marbles for over 40 years (and I have the documentation to prove it...) You have spent HUGE sums on your collection..... Who has the right to be correct, here??? Neither of us OWN the marble... So, do either of us even have the right to be trying to name it?? If we all unite, join hands and SWEAR that it IS a Superman.... Will yellow magically appear on it??? Roger, if you want to call that marble a Superman, you go right ahead... Ya know, it doesn't bother me. Nothing you can do will MAKE it bother me.... But, I will never see it as a Superman. If that drives you crazy, I'm terribly sorry!!! My only advice to you would be.... Go rent "American Beauty." Try hard to understand it... Then.... And, this is truly not intended to be nasty, at ALL.... Get a LIFE!!!

OK.... Let's back up.... First off... We collect marbles.... Now, say that to yourself, SERIOUSLY.... Get my point?? How freakin' serious can you get about someone paying over a thousand dollars for a ball of glass??? Now that we've established that we're all nuts.... Let's get as serious as is possible for people who collect.... Let's say it again.... We collect MARBLES!!! If someone posts an ID... We tell them what the marble is... "In our opinion..." That's really the best that we can do.... Nine times outta ten, we're all cool.... The tenth time, we may differ in opinions... Here is a case where we differ in opinions.... Some say it's OK that the yellow is really orange, as long as the other color is a true red.... Some feel that's not right, no yellow, no man.... We all know what we're lookin' at.... We all know what we think..... We all think that what we think is right... We don't all think the same thing..... What are we going to do??? FIGHT ABOUT IT??? Do we collect these marbles so that we can fight over the names we give them?? WTF???? I collect marbles because they are cool and I like the way they look. Who give a flying frot what that marble is called???? It's GORGOUS!!! Just say YES and be HAPPY!!! :Happy_143:

It all depends on how seriously you take it, Rick.... Alan HAS to take it seriously... He doesn't have a choice.... We do. If Scott wants to call it a Superman (He may not...) Hell... He can call it George, John or Jasper!! He's payin' enough to call it whatever he wants.... If he wants to pay that kinda money and call it a Superboy, does it make it worth less money?? The marble doesn't change a bit. I think these folks were bidding on a marble, not a name.... And oh, what a marble it is!!! On any given day, I agree with you totally about definitions... You know how I get about handmade tri-level swirls... I don't feel the solid white core with floating transparent colors constitutes a tri-level.... I can scream it till I turn purple!!! But, check in on ebay auctions and there is almost ALWAYS at least one, listed as a tri-level..... I'm not gonna take on the job of contacting and explaining that to every seller (some who care and many who don't...) If it pissed me off every time I saw it, I'd never have a good day!!! After a while, we just need to stand back and put the whole thing in perspective. I don't collect marbles to be a definitions detective. If I saw an auction for one that I really liked, I wouldn't care what it was called... I'd buy it!!! If a newbie asks the definition of a Superman, here.... They will get the "book" description." After that, what they wanna call a marble is totally up to them... They're going to have to learn, just as the rest of us have... That it's not all black & white, cut & dried... They need to start with the basics, then understand the flexibility of dealing with different people who have different views.... Confusing?? Yep.... But, if you think you'll ever be able to make it black & white, cut & dried... Good Luck, Man...... I've been shown Popeyes that I knew weren't Popeyes.... At least, not in my mind.... When I gently express my doubts and the owner says, "Oh yes, this IS a Popeye!!" I'm just gonna say, "OK...." Getting all pissy about it never changed a thing... It just makes everyone miserable....

ROFLMAO!!! Yep, it's great to have Mary back!!! Alan will always take the safest road... The grief he gets for calling it a Superboy will be a lot less than calling it a Superman.... As collectors, we can get away with a lot... At his level of selling, he's a moving target.

Damn it, Joe.... I think you had a better weekend than your allowed!!! No Fair!!! :icon_lmao: ROFL

Whoaaaaaaaaa!!! What a great lookin' marble....... But yeah.......... Whoaaaaaaaa!!! It's great when a couple of people with money to burn duke it out!!! LOL

Mannnn, I remember the days when we could find stuff like that at a flea market!! I suppose it still happens... Just not nearly as often!!! Great box!!

Dani, what's inside??

There was a topic a while ago, about the "fake" scenic china..... At the time, I mentioned that I hate to be "absolute" in an ID.... I'm a 3rd generation antique dealer... I started working shows with my mother when I was about 10-12... I've known a lot of people and I've seen a LOT of "stuff...." But, my grandmother (Who held the #3 Massachusetts auctioneers license) had an expression that I live by, because it's been proven to me, over and over again................. Sooooooooo, in the above post.... Rather than saying...... "That's not gold on that china... You'll never find metallic gold on a REAL china..." (Which is what I was thinking...) I skirted around the "absolute" and said what I still believe to be true (Unless Lloyd comes in and says I'm wrong... And, I'm totally OK with that, too...) The color on the marble should not be metallic, but a mustard color gold.... But, Steph knows what I was thinking!!! And, I thank her for..... 1. Not publicly making a fool of me and 2. Showing me something I've NEVER seen before!!! In an area where I feel I'm pretty proficient.... I've learned something really awesome from someone who really isn't a newbie... But, in time and experience comparison, to me, is a newbie..... Check this out.... Based on my knowledge of china marbles and gold applied to early china dinnerware and how it wears.... There's no doubt in my mind (Though, I always remain open for correction) that these are dead on authentic.... I have never seen, or even dreamed of such a thing..... Thanks Steph!!!

Roger, if I were running a class on china ID... You'd have just scored an A+ !!! And, Roger please confirm.... Bo, that shouldn't be gold paint, as in gold metallic, it should be a "mustard yellow" or "antique gold." And, I'm guessing it's on the large size for a china?? It almost looks more "carpet ball-ish."

Joe, I can only add the papermache info as I've seen it... To understand it, I need to set a stage.... When I first started collecting marbles, there were no books on collecting... There had been some articles in antiques magazines, but these mostly focused on (handmade) swirls and sulphides... Those were really the only marbles that were considered collectible by the broad "Antique Market." Paul Baumann's first book was published in 1970... Mel Morrison & Carl Terison's book preceeded that by a short time.... *Maybe* a year?? (I can't lay hands on my copy... But, I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a publishing date) Mel told me, himself, that they threw the book together and rushed it to publish because they had heard that another book was on the way and they wanted to be first... When I visited him (He had a shop in Maine) he only had a couple of marbles left... They were "off an' runnin'" to get out the first book on perfume bottles!! ... I don't know, but I don't recall, ever seeing that book published. So.... We were really collecting in the dark... I remember buying 2 jars of marbles at an auction and a comic charactor "Emma" was in it.... I had NO idea what the heck that was (but, I paid the 4 bucks for the jars, cuz I thought it was cool!!!) .... Now, I know, that at this same time, there must have been folks out there who knew about the comics... They had the boxes... They were aware of Peltier production... But, amongst the group of people that I routinely ran across at antique shows and sales, if they were aware, the question didn't come up... There was no communication beyond that... No marble shows, no newsletters, no clubs... Just the folks that you knew you had to beat, in order to buy what you wanted... Then, we often got together and compared "scores." When Paul's first book came out, it was such a revelation!!! We learned SO much!!! It was the Bible!! Now that we look back on it, it's just a teeny crack in the door of knowledge... And no... I don't believe there is a word about the marbles we are discussing in it.... So, back on topic... At some point during the late sixties or early to mid seventies, I went to an antiques show and bought 5 of these marbles... Like the comic, when I bought her, I had no idea what they were.... But, they were with marbles and appeared to be marbles.... So, I bought 'em... It was a long time before I ever ran across another, or anyone who had one... I'm not sure what I might have called them... I know I do remember thinking that they might be the "True" Indians.... Here's my theory... And, I still wonder if it has any credibility... During the 1960's - 70's we had the beginning of the "Indian Import" stuff.... In that pile of "Hippy Goods" there were bracelets and pieces of jewelry made from a plastic-like substance, with beads and teeny mirrors impressed into it... It was the closest substance I had ever seen to these marbles... There were black glass marbles floating around, that were called Indians... The story was, they were from India... That always seemed odd to me, because they were more common that banded opagues and looked so similar to banded opaques, yet there was no story about THOSE being from India.... Banded Opaques seemed so similar to the clam broths... Even to the point of having one that is black based.... Those were pretty well documented as being German.... But.... Here we have these 5 marbles that look.... Kinda / sorta.... along the same lines as the glass Indians... AND, they are made out of a material that is incredibly similar to this stuff in the India Import stores!!! More things that make you go, "Hmmmmmmmmm............................" I don't know what the Indian jewelry is made of... I don't know what the marbles are made of.... At some point in time, I heard someone mention "Papermache" marbles.... Thinking, "What the heck??" I don't recall when or where... But, I learned that that's what those 5 marbles were being called.... Fairly recently, someone brought up "Gutta Percha." ..... I still wondered about the color (the color is NOT painted on... It is the substance itself) But, it made so much more sense than papermache!!! It would be cool to run into someone, somewhere, who may have played with these as a kid and knows a name for them.... But, to my knowledge... That hasn't happened. That's the best I can do for ya, Joe!!! If ANYBODY has other info, PLEASE add it!!!

Joe, the marble above is the type referred to by both names. I think the reason they were called papermache is due to the weight... They're much lighter than other marble materials... It was the closest composition that folks were familiar with. These could actually go into the "Marble Myths" thread, because, aside from the weight, there's nothing about them that resembles papermache... Like so many other "mis-nomers" it came to them by being the first thing that came to mind when trying to describe them... I don't know of any marbles that were in actual production, made of papermache and I still wonder if the material that these are made of is, in fact, gutta percha??? I was always under the impression that gutta percha was varied shades of black / brown... But, maybe I'm only thinking that because that was a most common color used for old photo cases and early office and medical tools. OK.... So, I'm supposed to be doing accounting.... But, I figured I try to answer my own questions... Without going too much farther than Wikipedia.... Here's an article on gutta percha That article refers us to another article on gutta balata, a similar material that was used for the outer skin of golf balls.... I still can't find an absolute direct reference to colors... But, a quote about gutta percha states Whereas, a definition for gutta balata says.... In various places, I got the impression that this substance is white... I would think that would lend itself to taking on color??? It's also interesting that it was used to make golf balls.... A round object used in a game.... Things that make one go, "Hmmmmmmmmmm....................................." (Could the making of gutta balata skinned golf balls lead us to the origin of these marbles??) It also seems as if these marbles are not solid... But possibly, the color is wrapped around an inner core? At one point in the past, there was discussion of these and there was a picture of one with a chunk out of the surface... It seems to me (But, I may be mistaken... PLEASE correct me!!) that there was another, inner substance exposed.... Check out these pictures to see the seams on the construction of this marble... Dani... I hope I didn't just totally screw up anything in your article... Please add info!! PS... Is the marble above the one I sent you?? ..... I think so....

Wow Rick, that is SOOOO cool!!! Not only are they heirlooms, but they're really nice marbles in great looking condition!!! That's a rare find that you just can't get at any show or auction!!! :Cool_049:

I have to own up that those are not my birdcages!!! LOL I have them in my file and I'm not positive from where... I'm pretty sure the multi-colored is from Bev Brule's collection and I *think* the yellow is Tom Reed's.... There's a picture of another (next to a similar paperweight) over in the Orange County Show report.

As far as I am aware..... They were 2 names for the same marble.