Shamrock Marbles

One of the question posed to me was: "Why would they make only a few of these marbles?" Get Hellmers' book. Look at all the different formulas. The differences in color formulas require different amounts of ingredients. These differences can alter the coefficient of expansion (COE) for the glass. If the COE differences between two glasses is high enough, you will get failures (fractures and split marbles). Formulae can be altered to fit glasses. When it comes time to do a marble run with two different glasses, do you just hope and pray that the two glasses are compatible? Do you just run 100 or 1000 pounds of glass with your fingers crossed? If I were running an operation, I would want to test glass compatibility. I have speculated that some of these marbles where compatibility tests. No need to produce many, just enough to get a sample. Keep these samples in a box in the lab for future reference. During two conversations, I tried to describe how modern torch workers check for COE compatibility. It was the stringer method. Watch this video: Somehow, this was translated into pulling a cane for testing. I guess you could call a stringer a micro-cane. So, imagine "fitting" two glasses, then now try "fitting" four or five colors together. Companies like Fenton that made single color pressed articles didn't have to worry about fit. The same color could vary from batch to batch without consequences. Look at the Gabbert Cullet website. Notice the varying COE? http://www.gabbertcullet.com/list.html Mixing and matching these can have disastrous results. Funny thing about marbles, is that their spherical shape allows for some incompatibility. They may not break at first, but will fail later. Usually an internal bubble is the start of the failure propagation. Food for thought. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Japan is an island with minimal natural resources. Pretty much everything has to be imported to the isle and that would include energy (coal, oil, wood or natural gas). Modern Japanese glass (Satake) glass is formulated to have a low melting point. I would presume that Japanese glass factories altered their formulas to melt at a lower temperature to economize their energy usage. I agree with Galen that it was mostly the temperature of the glass at the time of shearing. He also points out the time the glass is removed from the heat source before delivery to the shear has an impact. The quicker the better. Don't let that glass cool! Blade geometry (straight versus curved) have different effects. Blade actuation speed can have an impact. The longer a "cold" blade is in contact with the "hot" glass the more pronounced will be a thermal witness mark. Blade condition. A sharp blade will leave a clean line with a minimal mark. As the blade dulls, it will leave a more prominent mark. Other considerations are: The amount the gob is allowed to drip from the punty before shearing. Increased time and cross-section reduction will cool the glass more. The ratio of gob size to punty diameter. Acceptable quality standards for the given wholesale price point. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

The Secret Marble Machine? One premise in this whole deal is that there was some lone wolf with a secret marble machine in his basement or garage. True, I have run my machine in my basement and garage, but it has been many other places, too. For the record, I know of at least six machines that where built by their owners. I have two (#1 & #2) and we know of Chris Robinson's (#3). Remember the three-wheel marble former that showed up on Ebay the last few years? (#4) There is a machine in the southern hemi-sphere. (#5) And another on the West Coast of the U.S. of A. (#6) (The above are not in chronological order.) But that doesn't mean anything. You only need four things to create a machine-made marble. 1) Source of heat. 2) Glass. 3) Marble machine. 4) Glass Worker/Artist. I want you to think about what happens at a marble factory late at night. Management has gone home and there are no cameras. People involved in private runs know some of what I talk about. 1) Source of heat. Furnace. 2) Glass. Vintage cullet or marble halves/bits. 3) Marble machine. Enough said. 4) Glass Worker/Artist. An employee scraping by day-to-day with an imagination and a need for money. It was fun to watch peoples faces when they demonstrated the Jabo/Vitro marble machine at Wheaton. I could freely observe as a third party. If there was only one thing that I hoped people would take away from this, it was: "It doesn't take much to make a marble if you have the ingredients." Oh yes, those Wheaton marbles where terribly misshaped with horrendous orange-peel surfaces. What's Galen looking for? "I did say that their surface under a 40x illuminated microscope has the identical manufacturing patterns and surface markings as vintage CAC slags etc. So if they are new they were made on CAC equipment with CAC glass in the exact same way as all the other CAC Striped opaques transparents etc that everyone excepts as vintage." - Galen, 3/23/15. So, I am going to speculate that Galen is inspecting the surface of the marble. Hand-made marbles rounded with a graphite or cherry wood molds have a certain surface texture. Machine rounded marbles have a completely different surface signature. Since my machine is "new", the surface is different than one that has been "used". I would speculate my marbles are smoother, but vintage CA marbles have a slight "orange-peel" to them. What is Orange-Peel? When a marble machine is new, the forming surface is pristine. Too pristine is a problem. It is too "slick" and will not "grab" the glass and turn it. Once the forming surface wears in, it develops a groove. You can see this on a machine after it has run for some time. It is like looking at a newly oiled bowling alley with a bowl rolled down it. Or seeing the tracks of a motorcycle ahead of you on a rainy road. Over time, when machines are idled or moved out to run a different size, the metal surface of the rollers oxidize (rust). The rust causes pitting. The more rust the more severe the pitting. So, technically, each forming machine would have an orange-peel profile (like a finger print). I guess when you hear someone state that they can trace a marble back to the original equipment. They are GOOD. The questions I have: 1) Do all CA marbles have the same profile? 2) Wouldn't earlier marbles such as slags have a smoother surface than say swirls that came later? 3) Do the Exotics exhibit surface profiles closer to the beginning or end of production? 4) Do all Exotics have the same identical surface texture? Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Galen, Thank you, but can you educate us what you are looking for and why you need a microscope? If you have developed a CA authentication protocol, can you share it with us? I mean, is it really only going to be you and a few others that are part of the illuminati? I can understand if you have some proprietary techniques you wish to monetize. So, is this the genesis of Galen's Authentication Services (G.A.S.)? Back to the microscope... I don't think 99.99% of all marble transactions are consummated with a check under the scope. Lighting in these hotel rooms is horrid at best. People chuckled at Bo with his 40X scope. Did Jenkins have micro-engraved on his forming wheels, "Made in USA by the Christensen Agate Corporation"? Is this what you are seeing imprinted on to each marble under magnification? You have so much to share with the community. It is a shame you don't share. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Craig, Thank you! That picture album is a great start. Thanks for the pointer. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Craig, I really appreciate what you have shared so far. The funny thing is that this thread was started by Steph to collect photos for her CA Exotic album. Since you offered, do you think you could set up a DropBox account and let Steph download the 700 photos for research? I would hazard a guess that some of those photos are from people that don't want them shared, but maybe you could cull those out? (Also, Lou has pinned a thread about Copyright usage and research/educational purposes.) Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Craig, Can you talk about the ones found in the wild? I mean, did you find a rare CA ST/SO exotic in a $20 jar in Zanesville? Was it from a show walk-in and picked up for $10? Maybe a dealer had it in their pistol case for $800. When asked where they got it, their story was what? With respect to the "three sisters", I guess with a little "detective" work, you could find who the original owners were. Some of the original "Road & Tunnel Slags" were picked up in the wild. That added to their vintage validity, until reality came. Wouldn't be hard to roll into an antique shop with a box of salted marbles and a story. I got these from my grandfather, just buried him in Cambridge and I need to sell them to buy some gas to get home. Will you give me twenty bucks? Lickety-split cash transaction and you're out the door. Seed planted. Mark your calendar and count the days before it turns up at a show or on the boards. Sit back and laugh with your buddies about those smart city slickers with their degrees and money. Drive up and down I-77 and back and forth on I-70 and visit the shops. Plenty of flea markets to move merchandise. Just thoughts. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Mibstified, Have you had the dark elements on the surface of that marble analyzed? Is it really coal? The surface embed of refractory is quite common even for today. (Refractory can also be found deep into the glass matrix.) Someone pointed to me that fire brick comes from the tank and would not be found in modern torchworked marbles. During a demo, I reached over to my annealing kiln and broke a chunk off of firebrick. Crumbled the chunk into bits and placed atop the machine. Heated up a gather and dropped it into the machine. Took my hand and swiped the firebrick bits into the rollers, while the glass was still molten. Voilà! Embeds just like the real thing. Now, I don't know if you could extract debris from a marble to determine a date. There may not be enough material to analyze. Interesting thought! Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Here are the manufacturer's names I used in the above marbles (Left to Right and Top to Bottom): 1. Moretti 2. Moretti 3. Spectrum 4. Moretti 5. Moretti 6. Moretti 7. Moretti 8. Moretti 9. Moretti 10. Spectrum 11. Spectrum 12. Moretti 13. Moretti 14. Moretti 15. Moretti 16. Bullseye 17. Moretti 18. Moretti 19. Moretti 20. Moretti 21. Moretti 22. Moretti 23. Moretti 24. Spectrum 25. Spectrum #16 was a very, very early type. See Alan's photo for other examples. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Craig, Okay. I just want to point out that in Don's email he references a "box of Shamrock marbles". "When you look at a box of Shamrock marbles you love the variation. I am not sure Christensen Agate wanted to fill a box with that much variation." There is only one photo of a box of Shamrock's and it was Craig Snider's from around June 2008 (same one posted on this thread). Assuming Craig S. doesn't have a time machine, I would suspect his first public post of the picture was around that time or thereafter. That would put the email no more than 7 years ago. Time has a way of getting away from us! There was only one guinea type in the box of 25 and it was a red/yellow. His point was more directed to the variation in a box. The argument that a series (multiples of one type) is proof that these are real. Look at the box of Craig's. You will see four (4) marbles from a run of about a dozen [L-R & T-B: #1, #9, #18 & #20]. You can see that these came from one run, but I can do that run again if I wanted. He had first pick of the litter just before Marble Crazy, I told him to leave some for others to buy. Marbles #5, #6 and #21 are same runs. Marbles #4 & #7 are same runs. Marbles #12 & #19 are same runs. I make either one (1) or a dozen (12) of a style or color combo. Why only one? I didn't like how it turned out. Why more than one? Liked how the first turned out and I thought I could sell them well. I don't believe that my thinking would be any different than others if they create products. Honestly, I've gone back to make more that sold well. Also, made color combos that people suggested. "Boy, that would be cool if you had a green base with red, blue and orange stripes." If I new I would see them at the next show, then I made them! Not rocket science. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Craig, I'm confused. Are you stating that the Don Rios email was from 10 years ago and only for the identification for guineas (not exotics)? Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Craig, Thank you for your insight. The reference you had to Don Rios as Popularhead had me a bit puzzled. Early posts from Popularhead/Don seemed to question the authenticity of the CA exotics. I went back and found a post from a Mike Rios (brother to Don Rios?) and his sign-in name is "theblueray". Here is a post from Mike Rios (theblueray) from September 7, 2009: "I have been reading this topic with interest and wanted to weigh in. Iam Mike Rios. My twin brother and i have an extensive C.A. collection put together mainly before this new find. We were at the Columbus show in 2002 a year after these marbles came to the market. Bill Tow actually obtained first pick as Les handled the initial selling (2001). Marblealan has a couple of these marbles up for auction now on the bay at 1400 each and they both have bids. Anyway back to the story,by 2002 some of the people present at the initial find were coming to the show in the evening and meeting with several C.A. collectors like Tow, Streme, Fung, us and others. Brian Esteep had a nice assortment with the largest examples including the transluscent red with yellow tear drops. The story was a water line had broken on the street where the old plant was located and when the backhoe crew was digging they churned up pieces of wood and hundreds of marbles. some local Cambridge collectors and others started helping themselves. This is an example of why you need an archeologist when something like this happens.(Brian Graham) We don't know if this was a crate or a floor? Now the point I wish to make is when you look at the cover of Baumann's 4th edition (not 3rd by the way) the marbles pictured are not the ones from that find from 2000. If you want to see mibs from that find you have to look no further than the two on the bay now, block's C.A. book (Collecting Early Machine-made Marbles the M.f. Christensen and son Company and Christensen Agate company) page 112 courtesy of Peter Sharrer, page 115 courtesy of Kenn Fung and Rich Stremme; page 119 courtesy of Bill Tow and page 124 courtesy of Kenn Fung to name a few examples. I would have to speculate that once the cache of this find was exhausted the artists have gone to work to keep up with the demand. I totally agree with Bo about a lot of these probably being modern. This does not disparage Brian Esteep. he may have some real and some fakes. It is interesting that Morphy's is including one of the tear drop yellow on transluscent red from the find in their fall auction. Now those were around in 2000-2002." Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Craig, Wow! Thank you for sharing that information. So, one of the check boxes you mark off on a marble is if all the colors cross reference to known CA and/or Cambridge colors? Would you be willing to share your other observations that move you into the "comfort zone"? Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Galen, Your better than that. No need to bait or inflame. It isn't very difficult to see that Mon placed you and your opinions high on a pedestal at one time. Obviously, he (and others) consider (or considered) you as a CA expert. One could extrapolate that your opinion (and other factors) led him to liquidate his holdings. Then Steph asks to see CA Exotic examples and BAM you have some in your collection. WHAT? Wasn't Galen talking down these marbles and now he has some? Major case of whiplash for some. You are very articulate and have a lot of knowledge. I think it is fair for people to ask you to share. Sometimes, I get the feeling you hold back, because you think that people will figure out the True Secrets and start making replicas. Not a bad belief, but it does come off as "you have to be part of the club" to get the real skinny. This and other forums are open to share and educate. You have tons of knowledge, so please share freely. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Steph, LOL! I know how you feel, but don't be disheartened. Galen and Craig, Thank you for coming back. Craig, The Don Rios color study is very interesting! I don't ever remember reading any post on any board with this information. Is this something that you can bring to the light for all to see? Is it a word document? PDF? I think something like this would add to the body of knowledge and be helpful to the collector community. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Nantucketdink, No. That is too wide a brush stroke. Everyone needs as much information to come to their own conclusion. Spend as much or little effort as you see fit, but one must make up their own mind. In fact, you are welcome to change your mind. What camp are you in? 1) They are real CA marbles. That's what I've thought from the start and believe to this day! 2) They are real CA marbles. I was doubting them at first, but after careful analysis, I've decided that they are real. 3) They are real CA marbles. I didn't buy any, because I'm into Catseyes. 4) Some are real CA marbles. The early ones are real, but the later ones are not. 5) Some are real CA marbles. You just have to educate yourself to know vintage from modern. 6) They are all fake. I had some, but got out. 7) They are all fake. Never held one, but I have an opinion. 8) Create your own camp and insert here >>(______). 9) Mix and match any of the above. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Hansel, Thank you for your pictures! I rather fancy that red and white one. Mon, Yes, I have handled some exotics (say 20 or so). Some are very beautiful and some are too dark/muddy. There was nothing that made alarm bells ring in my head. I don't recall them "feeling" different. The ones I held appeared to be shear cut and machine rolled with no signs of a punty mark. I did not look under high magnification for bubbles or signs of torchworking. One marble did stand out, but it was due to the reduction of the glass surface. How do you handle a statistical anomaly from a group of statistical anomalies? Personally, I would like to have some, but not at the current price-point. I liked your collection so much that I probably have your photo saved on my hard drive in 10 places. They are simply beautiful marbles. ---- I want to clarify something. When I commented about a company transitioning from a hand-gathered to an automated system, it appeared that I implied this transition was rather binary. I don't believe CA made hand-gathered marbles on Friday and walked in on Monday to be fully automated. In fact, I think they were bi-modal. They probably continued hand-gathering while the automated systems came on line and continued to do so for some time. It wouldn't be hard to believe that there was a repair on the automated unit that forced them to hand-gather while repairs continued. Ann, The deer-in-the-headlights is something I see when I demonstrate to marble collectors. What I have typed in this post are some of the conversation highlights from the past 12 years. I've even speculated on the hush-hush: 1) A contracted excavator improperly removed items from the site. This violated the contract terms and could jeopardize future jobs with the city or county. Imagine loosing thousands of dollars in future contracts for some glass balls for which crazy people pay big money? Might not have enough other non-government work and force bankruptcy. How are you going to make payments on that back-hoe with no paying jobs? 2) Every employee at the old Cambridge/Christensen site know about those crazy collectors and the marbles, cullet and such. They all are aware about the policies of not digging or profiting from the stuff. Someone finds a box of goodies and takes it home. Wants to profit from the contraband, but it must remain quiet. They could get fired and lose there City/County government pension. Can't imagine a ton of great paying jobs in that part of Ohio. 3) They are part of a departed loved one's collection. There is no provenance. The decedent never worked at a glass factory. The features look like CA, but there is no proof. Let's make up a story and say they were found near the old CA plant during a sewer dig. Yeah, that's the ticket! Instant provenance. 4) Make up your own story/theory and insert here> (_____). Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Hansel, My apologies if I slighted anyone with my omission. Yes, Chemistry hasn't changed in 100 years. I might add that the laws of human nature haven't changed either. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Sami, I want to elaborate a little bit more on the glass color issue. When I started out, I used stained glass from a local shop. The cost per pound was quite cheap ($7-$9/lb.), plus they had a scrap bin where the prices were more attractive ($2-$3/lb.). The products they sold were Spectrum (96 Coe) and Bullseye (90 Coe). Some Wissmach, Kokomo and Uroboros were also on the shelf. I really like the Bullseye, because they have an awesome green aventurine. However, some of the Bullseye colors didn't stand up well in a torch environment. Spectrum had a beautiful red, orange and yellow that really popped. Later on, I started using Moretti (104 Coe). What I liked about Moretti, is that it had higher colorant densities and held up in the flame. Moretti was NOT designed to be a stained glass with light transmittive properties (unless it was a transparent). What I mean, is that some solid/opaque Bullseye and Spectrum glass still allowed light to pass through. It should be noted that I used colors straight from the manufacturer. No blending or mixing of colors to change shade or tone were done. When I look at one of my marbles, I can tell you whether it was made from Bullseye, Spectrum or Moretti. ----- Many years ago Bo Stiff talked about bubbles in the glass. If you read what he wrote, he specifically talked about torch working. Torch working requires that you put the glass directly into the flame. Oxygen mixed propane burns much hotter than Air mixed propane. This is what I call a "hard" heat. Glass with narrow cross-sections heat first and have a tendency to over heat. This over heating creates bubbles that can be seen where the edge or corner once was. Snip the end of a rod of Moretti and heat it. Bubbles will form at the circular edge. Most torch workers know to peel or strip this material away. Since I use stained glass, I need to cut the glass into strips (say 1/2" wide x 3" long). There are twelve edges on that piece to create a bunch of micro bubbles (approximately 14 linear inches). Not the best way of making bubble free marbles. If I were to fuse or slump the glass first, then it would remove the sharp edges and dramatically reduce the chance of bubble formation. There will be highly skilled torch-workers that will contend that they have the skills and knowledge to work glass and not create bubbles. I wouldn't argue with them. They probably do. Most don't. [Clarification: Bo is not here to elaborate on my comments or his. Bubbles do occur in marbles. However, I believe the bubbles Bo is referring to are those in a linear pattern - like one dot after another (......). Most can be found at the surface. Sometimes there are sub-surface bubbles that erupt through the surface when reheated. If there is a color on the top, then this color is moved and formed into an "o". Kind of looks like a volcano from the top. Sometimes a line of color will have a bubble through and it will look like this (===o===).] Now, what happens with a "soft" heat? I consider a soft heat as one generated from an atmospheric burner pointed into a chamber. Yes, a glory hole or a glass furnace. When using a glory hole, the glass worker doesn't place the glass into the flame directly. The chamber envelopes the glass with a penetrating heat. This soft heat doesn't create the tell-tale bubbles as noted by many. Glass workers that make stemware, vases and such in a glory hole usually start with a crystal clear, then add color by rolling in frit. Frit or glass shards have a multitude of sharp edges and a narrow cross-section. However, in a soft heat environment, the frit has the chance to melt slowly without the formation of bubbles. Could you imagine the quality of their product with a million tiny bubble? Just wouldn't happen. It would be safe to say that CA didn't do torch work. Their source of heat was a furnace/glory hole. ---- So, Sami, an answer to your question: The Christensen glass used back then is available today. It can be existing CA marbles. It can be existing CA marble halves or fractures. It can be dug CA cullet. It can be Cambridge glass bowls and candlesticks. It can be dug Cambridge cullet. Glass recycles. One could probably make some fanciful Akro Exotics!! Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Okay, let's flip this coin over and talk about the possibilities! First, let's talk about context and progression. The context is that CA moved to Cambridge, OH in 1927. MFC is defunct. Akro is going strong and has been producing their own marbles in Clarksburg, WV for about twelve years (since 1914/15). Peltier is starting to make marbles in Ottawa, IL in 1927. (Did I miss someone?) If you started CA, what would you make? Hand-gathered slags? Sure, easy enough at first, but how would you compete in the wholesale market against the likes of Akro? Akro had to be kicking out a boat-load of marbles. If you can't compete on price, what can you do to differentiate yourself? With all those beautiful Cambridge colors next door, how to you construct or develop a marble to stand out? How do you progress? Guineas? Glass workers have been rolling bodies of glass in frit for years (and still continue to this day). Grab a punty. Get a gather of cobalt blue at the monkey pot. Roll in frit. Reheat. Take to machine to be sheared. Repeat. The roll in frit and reheat adds more time than a regular slag, but the results are fantastic! Tired of cobalt blue, then use amber or crystal clear. Okay, what else do you offer? What about "colorful" slags? According to patent 1,828,216 (filing 1928): Prior to the present invention, most glass marbles of the type just mentioned have been made of glass charges gathered by hand, the gatherer collecting on his punty portions of each gather from two or more supplies of differently colored glass and manipulating his punty so as to effect a winding of the glass of a secondary color or colors at or close to the surface of glass of the base color. If you look close enough, some of the construction features you see in CA Slags, you can see in some striped opaque and transparent marbles. One could argue that a ST/SO marble is just a colorful slag! No argument from me. Okay, okay. All this hand-gathering is still too expensive. We need to automate. Well, at the time, the Hartford-Empire Company has a stranglehold on glass patents and technology. You don't have the capability to do something in-house, so you contact them to see what technology or equipment you can license or buy. Akro is the big dog in the industry, so Hartford is probably giving them the best equipment and technology. Akro corks hit the market around 1928/29? (Based on patent dates.) Your volume isn't high enough to warrant engineering a custom solution. That is why you see Peltier patent their own two technologies. You license basic "swirl" technology. Nothing sexy except you have some awesome colors. You can't look back. You can't afford to hand-gather marbles for resale. Time to move on. Goodbye hand-gathered guineas. Goodbye hand-gathered slags. Goodbye hand-gathered swirls (ST/SO). Even with automation, the competition and the market crash/depression bring an end to the ride. Remember, back in the day they were childs' playthings. Not objects of art as we see them today. Some food for thought. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Mon, "Was it your goal to mimic the CAC design?" No. The goal was to build a machine. The challenge to me was building something that I knew nothing about. Remember, the machine came before I even started glasswork (proverbial cart ahead of the horse). Who do you call if you have questions? Much of this had to be figured out by trial and error. My first attempts were to do slags (blue and white). Then all the other questions followed: How do they get that "nine"? Can you do a cork? What about ribbons? How do you get those dots on a Guinea? Why are some Guinea patterns stretched and others not? Boy, that cut line looks like those on a CA. Why do some CA marbles have one cut line? Why two? Why is one cutline smooth (blended in) and the opposite one slight raised (rough)? How are flames made? The questions are endless (as you well know). "How hard is it to keep the colors from blending or bleeding?" It is a function of the glass, temperature and how the glass is merged together. Torchwork has a tendency to overheat the glass and cause certain glasses to flow into each other. "How hard would it be to match the colors of known CAC colors and whip them off your machine?" Why match? Everyone touts how Arnold used the same glass as Cambridge. People have documented this. Why not buy some Cambridge Glass off Ebay and bust up into pieces? Why not get some dug cullet or broken pieces? (Crickets...) "Do you think or have you ever tried to put the "S" trait in a marble?" The "S" is a result of the fluid glass twist between shearing actions. No "S" on single cutline marbles. Look at my avatar (bottom left view). Look at the photo of marbles I sold to MarbleAlan (bottom right). There is your "S". It is a natural occurrence and it is not necessary to "try" to replicate. The pattern of the glass, the engagement of the shear and fluidity of the glass contribute to this feature. Hope this helps. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Mon, You're welcome. My timeline is pretty transparent. In fact, one could argue that my appearance onto the scene was at the end of the Exotic reign. I don't think I was the meteor that caused the extinction, but I'm sure I didn't help. Let me share my history: My wife and I married in 1989 and we lived in a 300 square foot apartment. Since it was so small, we spent many hours away from the confines visiting friends and family (that had larger places). My brother and sister-in-law dealt in antiques and collected Gonder Pottery (Zanesville, OH). For a Christmas gift, I decided to find and buy a piece or two for a Christmas gift. We drove everywhere in search for the elusive piece. It didn't take long, that we started picking up other antiques to decorate our apartment. Then we progressed to auctions to get better pricing. Before too long, our apartment was bursting at the seams. We started selling out of a booth at a local antique mall to move our inventory. Around 1990, we went to an auction at an old tobacco barn in Weston, MO. There was a long table of box lots. One box interested us (flow blue plates), so we kept an eye on it. (An old auction trick is to move items from one box to the next to avoid competitive bidders.) Low and behold, some old fart moved something into our box! I ran the bid up just to jack with him and we won. He followed me when I grabbed the box. Guess what he wanted to buy out of my box? A jar of marbles!! They weren't there at first, so I told him to get lost. Put the marbles in a glass rolling pin and placed them for sale in our booth. Marbles sat there for months and then the mall shut down. We packed everything up and stored boxes and boxes in my parents basement. (Remember, the apartment was too small.) Bought our first house in 1991 and my parents told me to move the boxes out of their basement. Our family grew and we bought our second house in 2000. Moved all the boxes from the basement of house #1 to the basement of house #2. When going through the boxes, I rediscovered the marbles. Spent hours on Ebay trying to figure out what they were, let alone what they were worth. While searching the internet (AltaVista) I came across Moon Marble. Took the marbles over to the Moon to see if they could tell me what they are and what they are worth. It was the Spring of 2001 and I had just missed the inaugural Marble Crazy. Watched Bruce Breslow demonstrate how to make a torch-worked marble to a group of Boy Scouts. I was hooked! Left without having them look at the marbles. Kept coming back and watching more demos. Over time, Bruce and I got to talking. When he found out that I was an engineer, he suggested that I build a marble machine. Bruce pulled out this large laminated photo of a dual-auger machine (Mid-Atlantic). Was he nuts?! That would cost a ton of money to make! Mess up one thing and you have yourself a +$20,000 boat anchor. Man, I want to learn about torch-work, not build a contraption. Later that year around Thanksgiving, Bruce introduced me to Cathy Runyan-Svacina. Bruce unleashed her onto me and she suggested (in her enthusiastic way) to build a marble machine. Out pops that photo again. I told her that I would look into it. Around December 2001 or January 2002, there was a discussion on Alan's board about patents. Brian Graham was referencing the MFC patent. I emailed Brian and he shared the patent number with me. When I went to the US Patent and Trademark website and downloaded the patent, I was amazed. Wow, this is simple. I could make that and without much cost. Spent hours at USPTO downloading other marble machine patents. Started preliminary design work the Spring of 2002, but there were a ton of unknowns. The information in the patents were void of specifics. What are the wheel diameters? What are the shape of the grooves? How fast are they spinning? What material did they use? Etc. I kind of hit a wall and put the design on the back burner. Traveled to Philadelphia for a family reunion that Summer (August 2002). Afterwards, I took the family to Wildwood, NJ. Stopped in at Wheaton Village along the way. Paid our admission and walked in. Went to the right and I could not believe my eyes! Sitting outside under an awning (entrance to the exhibition hall) was a dual-auger marble machine. We where the only people there, so I stepped over the plastic chain and started taking pictures and notes. This was enough to break my mental log-jam. Went back home and started finalizing the design. Made parts at work and used some of my 2002 Christmas bonus to have the wheels machined. The machine was basically finished by year end (December 2002). Guess what? I have a machine, but no glass equipment. Used a gift certificate that my mother gave me for Christmas to buy stuff at Bearden's Stained Glass. Bought: 1 Hot Head, 1 glass cutter, 1 sq-ft of transparent cobalt blue stained glass (Spectrum), 1 sq-ft of opaque white stained glass (Spectrum), bead mandrels and some frax for annealing. Got everything set up in the basement and attempted my first marble in March 2003. What a disaster! Nothing worked. Only two gobs survived and they look like dirt clods. One gob exploded during a test and the hot shards landed amongst the corrugated boxes under the stairs. I thought I was going to burn the house down. Went back to the patents and did more studying. Got a real torch and a real kiln (around May 2003). Started hand making marbles to get a feel for the glass. Once I got comfortable, I went back to the machine (now in the garage). It wasn't until the end of August 2003 that I made "round" marbles. Demonstrated the machine at Moon Marble in October 2003. Went to Hannibal for the December show to meet up with Chris Robinson. Brought the machine along. Went to John Hamon-Miller's shop to see Chris' machine. Chris and I shared a table next to Les Jones on Saturday. This was the first time I met Les and he let me handle some of his expensive guineas. We talked briefly about marbles, but he kept his distance. I got a sense he was trying to figure me out. No harm. Marble Crazy 2004 came in the Spring and I took some of my marbles to the Holiday Inn. Went to Les' room and showed him my shoe box. He looked them over and dismissed them. We got to talking and he asked to see my box again. This time he dug through and pulled out a handful. Sold them for 50-cents apiece. Probably spent two hours talking with him and Ted Adams. Invited Les and Ted to come see the machine over at Moon Marble. The next day, Saturday, the two showed up. I did a couple demos for them. They both looked at each other with wide eyes. Les asked a few questions about patterns. Went to see Les Saturday night. He dug through my box again and told me that he knew someone that would be interested in these. We talked more about marbles and machines. A couple months later, I went to Amana (2004). This time I had a pistol case with "better" marbles. Left the case with him and went to walk the hallways. As I left, he picked up the phone and told someone to come to his room. When I returned, he had pulled out what he wanted and paid me about $5 apiece. Chris' machine was delivered to me by JHM at Amana 2004. Mark Mathews and Geoffrey Beetem came and saw both machines in the back of my minivan. Took Chris' machine back home to cleanup, document and rebuild. Sold sample marbles to MarbleAlan in July 2004. Marble Crazy 2005 was the first time the general public saw Chris' rebuilt machine. He did some demonstrations at the Moon. Met Hansel there for the first time. Sorry for such a long story. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Mon, You have a ton of questions! LOL! Simple answers are very dangerous. There is a very intelligent guy I know that uses the term "thoughtful speculation." Thoughtful speculation can be used to support or dismiss whether these marbles are real or fake. I have lots of thoughts on both sides of the fence. In the court of law, you wouldn't want me as a witness for the plaintiff or the defendant. Here is what I know as fact: 1) The laws of physics haven't changed for the last 100 years. Marble King or Jabo have to work with the universe today just like MFC and CA did years ago. Therefore, what was done then, can be done now. Now, to your questions... "...would you agree that they are very close in design?" Some do and some don't. Some have looked and declared the lack of a side "s" is a giveaway. Some have looked and said they can see fine bubbles from torch-working. Some have said the lack of fine-lines and detail are marks of a contemporary. Some have said the colors are all wrong. Some have said, "Oh, crap!!!" Some have said, "You need to sign those!" "What did Alan have to say after receiving them?" I didn't know Alan, but only talked with him twice. He had a ton of questions (like you). Alan didn't reveal to me his opinion or in-depth thoughts on CA Exotics. He did suggest that I stay with modern glass and use aventurine. "...you believe these Exotics are hand gathered...right?" I think that Guineas were hand-gathered (not cane construction). I think some of the early CA marbles were hand-gathered. Manual manipulation of the glass comes first, then followed by automation. It would be easy to conclude through thoughtful speculation that early striped transparent and opaque marbles were hand-gathered. "How much of the design is contributed to the gatherer, glass, shear and rollers? Would you John be willing to give each a percentage seeing you have lots of knowledge in coming very close?" Don't know how to answer this using numbers, but I'll give it a try. Crazy color combinations (gatherer): 45.0% Crazy swirl patterns (gatherer): 45.0% Cut Lines (machine): 9.9% Rollers (machine): 0.1% Forgive me if I leave off here for comments. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

This is just not true.....just before he became ill and I mean just before, he sold all but one of mine over a 4 week period. Another collector and mine were mixed over that period and the last of these he sold. I talked with him many times and he had none and still had his doubts about them. Yes, he had many at first but the shamrock marbles threw him for a big loop! I swore to myself that I was not going to get involved in the validity of these again (I was the one who asked MC Marbles to remove my pic he posted).....and I truly don't know either way. But Craig, why won't you talk about this here? I'm sure most every member here would like to be informed. Can you at least explain the finder's accounts that you validated? thank you in advance! For the record: Here are a group of early marbles that I sold to MarbleAlan back in July 2004. Alan wanted them to study the construction features. Wonder what happened to them after his passing. Wish I had some of these early types. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

I went! Bruce and Linda did another great job at Moon Marble. Twelfth year demonstrating the marble machine(s). Scott and Charles provided a wonderful show at the Holiday Inn. Full tables with lots of activity. Met many new faces and many marble veterans for the first time. Wonderful people they all are. Looking forward to next year. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"