Who Used Oxblood?

[psia-antique]

Oxblood as a color is the color of ox blood. Sometimes wet ox blood. Sometimes dry.

To widen that meaning -- as a color -- is anyone's prerogative, and it is anyone's prerogative not to adopt the expanded definition. I know that I am more of a purist than most so I shall proceed with caution in that area.

I see what appears to be an effort to expand the definition by fiat instead of in an organic way and I resist that.

Oxblood is an archaic term. I choose to appreciate it in its traditional contexts, as far as I understand them. My understanding of that is still in progress.

Expand the definition? By describing it as a color and not a method of manufacture? Do you disagree that there is more than one way to make a color?

I have made it very clear that we need to go slowly and that there are more questions than answers.

I have made it clear that every resource available to do the research should be used.

Since your understanding is expanding,like that of others, why is the definition section of the study hall closed?

[marboman]

"There are many colors of red...fire engine, cherry, russet, etc. Which is the "real red?"

Steve the REAL red is one of the primary colors on the color wheel.There are three primary colors,red, blue and yellow, the building blocks of color.All other colors are made from a blend of the three.

I did a quick google search and found many examples of oxblood but none were the same,in my opinion not even close to each other or what I would consider oxblood.Oh well color is a subjective experience.

Websters Universal College Dictionary defines Oxblood as "a deep,dull red" that sounds opaque to me.

I hope this helps, Bo

[psia-antique]

Steve the REAL red is one of the primary colors on the color wheel.There are three primary colors,red, blue and yellow, the building blocks of color.All other colors are made from a blend of the three.

I did a quick google search and found many examples of oxblood but none were the same,in my opinion not even close to each other or what I would consider oxblood.Oh well color is a subjective experience.

Websters Universal College Dictionary defines Oxblood as "a deep,dull red" that sounds opaque to me.

I hope this helps, Bo

Thanks Bo for making the point about real red and telling us that none of the oxblood colors are the same from your research.

That is exactly the point. The word oxblood as used in marbles does not define one particular color, but a range of colors and subjective at best. Hence I said in an earlier post ..."What is your intellectual response to my proposition that oxblood as a color is about defining shade, tone, hue, and finding its place on the color wheel where no manufacuring critea is needed, wanted or allowed? It is either a color or it is not? You see, I think your premise that chemists study it in a scientific way and artists use and love it agrees with what I am saying. "

Stephanie points out that not all ox is opaque and I agree with that. Artists are entitled to call their color of red any name they choose.

[MrsMopar]

When I ponder these things, sometimes I do it out-loud and it tends to cause my husband to respond. He has been drawing and painting some 30 years and has seen many colors in paints.

He said that when the word blood is mentioned, he automatically thinks red as well as the stages of colors it goes through until it has dried. Did you ever notice when you paint a wall, as the paint dries/cures there is a change in the color level/tone? He also described to me how, by using the appropriate stain, that in a wood, such as mahogany, which has natural red tones, can bring out those tones even better.

Now, I in turn, proposed to him that oxblood could be a descriptive word for a color, like pea green...when you hear pea green, you can relate to the greenish color of a pea...with just those two words, it is descriptive enough to automatically bring the object to mind.

He then said, take white for example..there's eggshell white, off-white, pearl white and others, they are all shades/levels/tones of white but they are all in the white catagory.

He doesn't know much about marbles but he does know colors and went on to explain a color in his paints (I can't think of the name because it sounded weird) that is the color of tarnished (?) copper..it's some sort of green. <shrugs>

Just go through your house and see the various levels of one color, say blue, you'll find from the lightest to the darkest, they are all blue but the shades/depth of the blues vary.

Just adding the viewpoint of the artistic side.

[psia-antique]

When I ponder these things, sometimes I do it out-loud and it tends to cause my husband to respond. He has been drawing and painting some 30 years and has seen many colors in paints.

He said that when the word blood is mentioned, he automatically thinks red as well as the stages of colors it goes through until it has dried. Did you ever notice when you paint a wall, as the paint dries/cures there is a change in the color level/tone? He also described to me how, by using the appropriate stain, that in a wood, such as mahogany, which has natural red tones, can bring out those tones even better.

Now, I in turn, proposed to him that oxblood could be a descriptive word for a color, like pea green...when you hear pea green, you can relate to the greenish color of a pea...with just those two words, it is descriptive enough to automatically bring the object to mind.

He then said, take white for example..there's eggshell white, off-white, pearl white and others, they are all shades/levels/tones of white but they are all in the white catagory.

He doesn't know much about marbles but he does know colors and went on to explain a color in his paints (I can't think of the name because it sounded weird) that is the color of tarnished (?) copper..it's some sort of green. <shrugs>

Just go through your house and see the various levels of one color, say blue, you'll find from the lightest to the darkest, they are all blue but the shades/depth of the blues vary.

Felicia, I agree with you and think that is basically what I said in thread #

Just adding the viewpoint of the artistic side.

I agree with you and I think that I said that same sort of thing in post #42.

I think you will enjoy this rhetorical question. Is a see through white wash white? I think the answer is kind of, sort of yes

[marboman]

I think you will enjoy this rhetorical question. Is a see through white wash white? I think the answer is kind of, sort of yes

That's a good one Steve, LOL .I think the answer to your rhetorical question would be "what is so rare as a day in June?" Nice talking to you Steve ,have a nice day.Bo

[Steph]

Stephanie points out that not all ox is opaque and I agree with that. Artists are entitled to call their color of red any name they choose.

Nevertheless the transparent oxblood to which I referred was copper-based.

Anyone has the right to call things most anything they want.

However, the rest of us have a right to do what we can to warn the unsuspecting of how some people use words in a nontraditional way. Red flags go off when people do this often, and/or without making it clear that this is what they are doing. We have the right to advise newbies that it is safest to steer clear of people who seem to be doing this, and in particular to guard against spending traditional oxblood money on non-traditional "oxblood" glass.

Oxblood prices are rightly associated with Haematinum red glass. When people seem to be riding the coat tails of Haematinum's market success, their reputation suffers.

I'd hate to see that happen to anyone I know.

[sissydear]

I just don't get it. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I don't get it. I love oxblood. I know oxblood when I see it. I don't care to know all the details that keep getting "hashed over" in this thread. It seems to be that people are disagreeing just to disagree when they really agree on more than they disagree on. Does that make sense? I just don't care to know all the details and fine points of oxblood. As to color, the Last Dance run got some funny oxblood colors. For example, the colonel has magenta oxblood. David McCullough knows what went into that glass and he says it's oxblood. Hardcore has purple oxblood. Both those marbles are gorgeous. I don't care to argue about the color, the ingredients, the chemistry of the thing, the atmospheric conditions. I know it's oxblood. Debating is not my idea of fun. Friends get lost when nit picking goes on and on and on. Let's talk about something else. I don't think this thread is going anywhere that is positive and I'm sure not learning anything from the negative. Edna

[marboman]

Steve, If we met at the corner of raw umber and burnt siena in which direction on the color wheel would you go to achieve your subjective color of oxblood ? Bo

[sissydear]

Let's see now, which primary colors does one mix to achieve brown? And where does red lie in relation to those primary colors? Heck I don't know. I know you weren't asking me Bo, but I'd be lost. Probably wouldn't head any direction. LOL Edna

[marboman]

Hello Edna ,the easiest way I know to make brown would be oker and violet blended to the disered value. Bo

[sissydear]

Thanks, I'll try to remember that. I still don't know which turn to make though. LOL. I guess it's debatable and I don't like arguing for the sake of arguing. Edna

[marboman]

Sorry Edna ,Steve and I are not arguing,were having a talk about color and what he thinks is oxblood.

Steve before we attempt to define oxblood please look at the marble below and tell me what color it is.I haven't got anything close to it in my entire collection.And if you were one of the men of yore and you were harvesting an ox ,what part of the ox would this color be related/associated to,hypothetically?Ox blood? ox hide? ox bone? ox tail? ox....? I know you are proud of this marble because you hand picked it for me.I bought it from you,unseen, after one of the joker runs. Steve do you have a name for this color?

[sissydear]

Bo, I'm sorry. I wasn't talking about you arguing. Did you feel guilty? LOL! there's a disagreement going on between two bull headed people and it's been going on a long time. They have been nit picking for a long time and I don't want to name them. They know who they are. Edna

[Steph]

Edna, I presume you are speaking of me. I have a legitimate desire to protect the old standards for words such as oxblood. Akin to the line Sue draws with the name Joseph's Coat.

It is not nitpicking or bullheaded to draw a meaningful line and defend it.

This is about marbles. It is a legitimate topic. If there are improper (read: personal) overtones here, they are not of my making.

[Steph]

Deleted.

Edna, I thank you for defending me in the past when I could not defend myself.

I guess I'll be responsible for my own defense from now on. And that's okay with me. I'm a big girl.

Edited April 28, 2009 by modularforms

[psia-antique]

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[marboman]

Steve ,we both got identical letters saying we were not to speak of "it" again.Is this your way of speaking about "it" ,without speaking about "it"?

[Alan]

Why bump a 5 month old thread with zero comment?

[manddrakes]

This looks so solid oxblood type to me. Pictures added. Thanks Mike