Cac Guinea Question

[BuckEye]

Hey,

Did CAC make guineas with no cut lines at all, I mean just straight specks? The reason I ask is because last weekend I went to Cambridge and happened to cross paths with the famous Cambridge Barber. He told me several stories about CAC and was a pretty interesting fellow to say the least. Anyway he had a guinea he wanted to sell me with obvious CAC glass, but no cut marks and a VERY small speckled pattern. It looked almost like a remelt to me but there were no external signs of torch work. Needless to say, I passed.....Does anyone have an example? He explained to me how Fielder made guineas. He says they were all HANDMADE and only made for 1.5 yrs. Which I found hard to believe because of the usual cut lines (which come from a machine)

Please enlighten me,

Craig

[BuckEye]

Oh and look how fake this is!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320524509990&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[Kokoken]

I think you misunderstood him. Rather than being hand made like we think of, there was was some manipulation by hand done or hand manipulation if you will.

Exactly what this manipulation was, I don't know but some how the frit had to be applied be fore the stream of glass was cut. That is my thinking, anyway. What made the frit stay in spot like shapes vs. stretched steaks is a whole nother question. Then, we have the matter of interior color to answer. I have heard different smart guys explain their theories but I still don't get it.

As to your question of no seams, I think there has to be an invisible seam.

[BuckEye]

He told me that the crushed glass pieces came down through five or six nozzles and fielder manipulated them somehow, it is possible that the internal coloring happened if the common nozzle was inserted into the clear too much?

So it doesnt matter that the flecks were very minute compared to my other guineas? at one "pole" there seemed to be a clear area almost like an onionskin has at the one pontil, and the guinea colors did "cobra" there into the clear; and maybe the seam is invisible! I wish I had a camera to take pictures of it.

[popeyecollector]

It may just be my imagination but in several of the above pictures: it looks like there is a Czech "bullet mold" type seam dividing the marble into two halves.

Does anyone else see it?

[MARBLEMISER]

I have a couple that are covered with

small spots.

I was told that these were made toward

the end of the run or end of day.

When the frit was almost dust size.

BTW The Barber of Cambridge knows what he's

talking about. IMHO.

Don't know about the one he had not showing

cut lines though.

Thanks

marblemsier

[BuckEye]

I dont doubt his knowledge, he was great and had lots of info, I had just never seen a guinea without cuts. It was very similar to the ones you show, just a little more mottled and the color separation was more blended than I was used to. And those are gorgeous by the way!

C

[BuckEye]

See and maybe the guinea in that auction is not fake!

[popeyecollector]

Based on examining the pictures of this 1" "Guinea" like marble I see two things:

a) The surface texture looks slightly smooth and satin-like,

Separation and alignment of color smears is along belts or lines, not folds.

I have a small assortment of Czech bullet mold marbles, one is 1.25".

The marble in question looks quite similar.

And, ... Didn't Alan sell a much smaller Czech guinea recently for $150+?

[n2marbles]

Just for the book how many 1 inch or over ginnies are out there?. Steve

[Steph]

Also, for the book, does anyone know the story about large (or any size) guineas being found in Mexican packaging, sometime back?

I heard just a tiny bit but now can't remember enough to even search for the original reference.

Someone was going to pursue the lead. I think maybe someone from Running Rabbit?

Ring any bells?

[lstmmrbls]

The dark spots in the center of the color blothes are a dead giveaway that it is fake. And I have never seen a Guinea with out a cutline.

[Steph]

Thanks for articulating that, Galen. The dark spots were the main thing standing out to me. That just didn't seem right.

[Kokoken]

Someone mentioned six nozzles being used. Judging by the size of these tiny specs and the huge blobs on these mibs, those nozzles must have really been something. And the precision with which they usually laid the specs right on the surface all the way around the marble is a precision I just can't understand.

Big spots, little spots.

[david Chamberlain]

Re: Czech Bullet Mold Marbles. I have handled some early Czech Bullet Mold Marbles(Pre-WWII). I actually provide a four point breakdown on the difference between the old bullet molds and the new ones made in Germany after the war when the machinery actually went to Germany from Czech.(I abbreviate because I can never get that word right even with the 'red' spelling warning that this computer has and I'm too lazy to go to my Webster's).

Anyway, I've handled some serious bullet molds and have had some that approach Guinea stage except they are by and large and practically entirely from what I've seen OPAQUE. Of course they have the seam. The colors are not always Christensen in appearance but at times they are. The coverage is never like this marble in the thread. I have a strong feeling for Czech. Bullet Molds.

You might want to ask Ken Humphreys about this marble if you have concerns/doubts as he claims to have a significant collection. You can reach him through Joe Street @ joemarbles.com David

[Steph]

he's easier to reach than that.

Hi Ken.

[david Chamberlain]

Anything to bring as much definitive knowledge as is possible to the concern over this marble as far as I'm concerned. David

I must be incredible dense what with Ken already posting in this thread. These Avatar names manage to eluded me at times.

I would be interested in hearing if he has ever seen anything that comes remotely close to the marble in question in a transparent older Czech bullet mold, of course, with seam.

I have had a very few Czech Bullet Molds where you can hardly detect a seam. The positioning of the colors is generally a clear determinant. Again, they've all been opaque. I've had few old transparent ones. They never appealed to me as much as the opaque ones. Although I've had one with a Silver Grey almost tiger's eye shimmer to it that was an outstanding Czech Bullet Mold. A marble to die for. Even at $350 I felt it was cheap! Decent size as I recall 3/4"+ There are Czech Bullet Molds that are worth more, David

[Kokoken]

Hi Steph

Yes, I have a fair sized CA collection and I am still seeing new stuff all the time - new colors, patterns and wierd constructions.

Ken Humphrey

[lstmmrbls]

I believe they still make the tigereye looking types. They can be seen on some of the German sites.

[david Chamberlain]

I should have been more specific in my description of that Silver-Grey(with Tiger Eye-like shimmer) one because I also have seen the many newer ones that do have a similar effect but it is much different. O.K., here's a breakdown on the old and the newer bullet molds that you mention Galen:

PRE-WAR CZECH. OR NEW DUSSELDORF, GERMANY BULLET-MOLDS -

A. The old are almost exclusively opaque whereas the new are uniformly semi-translucent.

B. The old have a scattered or random color application whereas the new have a repetitive and uniform pattern to the color application.

C. The old have the color applied to the surface over the matrix color whereas the new have the repetitive color pattern right below the surface.

The old have a semi-gloss surface sheen whereas the new have what can best be described as a flat latex surface look, almost a sand-blasted appearance. The paint terminology pretty much suns it up.(This was D. of course)

David Chamberlain

[lstmmrbls]

I just don't see how any more than one nozzle was involved in making the Guineas. As for when or how the blotches were added I have never seen actual paperwork so everything is pretty much conjecture on my part. heck no one has been able to even explain how they made 2 seam striped opaques which are layered like putting your hands together with the fingers of one hand laying on top of the fingers of the other hand and the other fingers pushing into the palm of the over riding hand. As for the guineas it is like the furnace stream ran through some pre heated frit before getting cut and rounded. I have seen some feeders where the stream acually ran over some rollers before bing sheared. Maybe the frit was added during a path like that/????. When is someone going to come up with some CAC paperwork????????

[I LOVE MARBLES]

Never seen a real Guinea without at least one cut line! That link is a fake! No nozzles were used in making Guineas, other than the main base flow, they were made with frit!

Oh, how the hell did Czech Bullet Molds get into this thread? Not a damn thing to do with it!

[david Chamberlain]

Let's see, other than the fact that at least three different people have previously remarked in this thread that there's a Czech Bullet Mold resemblance I guess there's no reason for them to be mentioned. That it is an established name Czech. Bullet Mold Guinea I suppose is irrelevant. That the underlying important subject of this thread is possibly fraudulent selling on eBay I guess has been overlooked as have its relevant extra Guinea references. So I imagine it doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything.....f----n' amazing! David

[Kokoken]

Let's settle down here. At 1st I thought the bullet mold subject was irrelevant but now as I look at two of my transparent bullet molds I see a resemblance ( kind of )

Anyway here are two of my killer Czechs

[popeyecollector]

David,

Well put. Your reply was better and faster than mine so I pushed delete.

Anyway, I will have my CAC Guinea shards and Czech "bullet mold Guineas with me at Amana. They make a nice compare and contrast discussion. See you there ?

Steve -aka- Big Indian with braid. (Big Indian remains but braid went to Locks of Love)