Base Color Questions

[m!b$]

Do marbles have to have a base color? Is it mostly a cost-saving thing? Does white cost the least of any color? Otherwise, if you want a red and blue marble, why not just use red and blue? Or would you then get purple, not red and blue? Some marbles have a black base. How then is it possible to get any other colors to show?

Have fun with this

(I'm serious, I'd like to know, but don't get too technical. Diagrams or pictures might be helpful.)

[richsantaclaus]

In making my marbles, I use clear as a base whenever possible because the cost of clear rods is VERY cheap!!!!! Then I cover the clear base with more costly colored rods. If I didn't, I'd have to charge a lot more for my work.

I use a black base when working with dichro because it looks best that way.

I use a white base occasionally when I make a twistie marble like this one.

[m!b$]

How are colors veneered onto the base glass? Is it sort of like spreading frosting on a cake?

[Steph]

Good question. I've often wondered that myself.

I have a mental picture / working theory but I'm nowhere near confident enough to try to articulate it.

[1DanS]

How are colors veneered onto/into the base glass? Is it sort of like spreading frosting on a cake?

not quite sure how they dun it.

outside:

inside:

thanks.

[Steph]

This clip shows the inside of a veneered MK cub scout. Sorry it's a little fuzzy. It's from a photo posted by Jeff H. I blew it up some to get a good view of the white.

[richsantaclaus]

It IS like spreading frosting over a cake.

It's that you have to make sure you don't heat the base glass too hot before applying the colored glass on top of it.

[Steph]

It's that you have to make sure you don't heat the base glass too hot before applying the colored glass on top of it.

Rich, you have me confused. Are you saying that there was a premade base ... or just that outer glass is heated to a higher temperature than the inner glass?

My mental picture of how it was done isn't/wasn't that they spread the colors over a pre-made base. I thought they made the marble at all once so the base glass would indeed be quite hot ....

If that's wrong, I would seriously appreciate some clarification!

.

Edited December 5, 2010 by Steph

[m!b$]

That would explain how the black-based veneered marbles are made. I can't imagine a black-based marble being anything but veneered.

I'm guessing white-based or clear-based ones could also be made all at once, and that the colors would be more blended that way.

Rich, are you talking about torch-made marbles, or machine-made marbles?

[lstmmrbls]

Rich, we are talking about machine made marbles. And I would love to see drawings of the glass stream mechanics that made those early MK patch and ribbon marbles possible

[richsantaclaus]

I am referring to torch made marbles BUT I talked to an "expert" that told me the veneer was applied to the machine made, white based marbles as they were dropping onto the rollers. I can't envision how that would be done - really risky considering the amount of heat needed to melt the veneer so it covered the white base.

[ann]

The veneer isn't necessarily molten glass. Think glass pigment and spray nozzles.

[ann]

I can't imagine a black-based marble being anything but veneered.

A black-based marble can be black with colors swirled in. Different colors of glass don't mix with each other very easily.

[david Chamberlain]

To get back to the Red and Blue marble as an example you actually don't get blending. Any diminishment(or perceived change) of one color by the other color would occur when a transparent or translucent layer of one color is over the other color. Splitting the marble open would reveal this immediately and the underlying color would be revealed in it's full glory (red or blue). David

[Steph]

I am referring to torch made marbles BUT I talked to an "expert" that told me the veneer was applied to the machine made, white based marbles as they were dropping onto the rollers. I can't envision how that would be done - really risky considering the amount of heat needed to melt the veneer so it covered the white base.

How expert is your "expert"? What you're saying sort of makes sense - at least it's starting to make sense to me that one part of the stream might be more molten than the other, making it easier to control what part is inside and what part is outside .... But it's the first time I ever heard anything like that. Wondering how much weight to put on the idea.

I don't really mind being tossed to and fro on the waves of ideas. But I like to have some feel for how much is guesswork and how much is confirmable.

[lstmmrbls]

I believe Everything is done before the shears and the marble drops. I believe the early Marble Kings (ending in around 65) were the only truly completely veneered marbles ever made. All the others are varieties of patches IMO. Here is a pic that pretty much shows it is done way upstream. The one on the right is a later, after 65, type(patch on colored base),Not truly veneered.

[richsantaclaus]

My "expret" seemed very knowledgeable about machine nozzles and jets and stuff way over my head in understanding when the glass was in the melting part of the machine when marbles were veneered. He even tried to explain how multi-veined cateye marbles are made by the machine.

[richsantaclaus]

Hey Galen - I can "fix" those 1/2's for ya...lol

[david Chamberlain]

Yeah Rich but would you have them perfectly aligned? Now that would be scary! David

[richsantaclaus]

Depending on the edge damage, it is ease to align them. The problem would be if the edge had a deep chip in it. Then the melting would shape the glass to where it wanted to go.