psia-antique Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Doesn't LOOK Peltier.......that would have been my last guess........ mike b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 that would be the only .. 1 .. ..bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 I would bet it was not made in Ottawa at The Peltier Glass Co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Bingo Billy! That is the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsantaclaus Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 I'd like more information about the marble like location, date, etc. please - thanks It looks like something I make on my torch using the "frit" method and not melting the frit all the way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck G Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hi, you ole sea dog, lets see what else comes out on this one of a kind. It will be discussed later for sure!!! Chuck G-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 but I am already tired of waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hi, you ole sea dog, lets see what else comes out on this one of a kind. It will be discussed later for sure!!! Chuck G-- even when guy told the story to me,and he agreed, it didn't hold .. ANY .. water then .. and doesn't now .. wasn't a lik of proof on anything ... j.m.o... bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orbboy Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 More info! More info! Is a dug marble? I would have thought Vacor or one of those funky spotted Vitro types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 But we all know by now that if found at a dig site it does not necessarily prove anything. Especially if only one or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 I do not own this marble,but it was sent to me to see. I know the provenance and I think that you, Galen and Bill, will respect it when you hear it in detail from the gentleman who it was GIVEN to. It now belongs to its third owner. Marlow Peterson often talks about "opening the door a little wider" to expand marble knowledge. That info may not be complete, but it is a start of a new chapter of info.I accept as it is right now,moving knowledge ahead of yesterday's info. I do not recognize the base color as Pelt.The frit colors look German to me. Every fiber of my body says German or Mexican, but the provenance is very strong so until proven otherwise I will go with Pelt. Statistically, it would be suicide to do otherwise from my perspective. This is not the first Pelt confetti I have seen. Sellers Peltier experimented all the time. He was a master. It matters not what we think about what was read coming from a safe in this case. The stuff from the safe proves a particular point and that point would generally be what a particular document is about. Like the thread where I talked about marble collecting ultimately being tactile and got jumped,I will send you back this year when there were two Pelt threads running at the same time. While those ran, two of us talked almost daily about things pictured that were very rare. No one said anything. We said nothing and watched to see who saw what. If you go back to the one about baseballs and look carefully,you will see a common white Champion Jr with confetti. The hunt has been on ever since. If the original "giftee" of this mib chooses to post, fine. If not,then we know what we know so far, no more, no less. We will just have to wait for more info. The JABO experience is part of this too. Time spent watching while marbles are being made adds to the understanding of the process that McCullough uses and what those before him might have done. We now know for sure that Pelt, Vitro, Vitro Anacordes, the Chinese (for HOM), Mexicans, MK, and JABO at least made some experimental confettis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck G Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 I do not own this marble,but it was sent to me to see. I know the provenance and I think that you, Galen and Bill, will respect it when you hear it in detail from the gentleman who it was GIVEN to. It now belongs to its third owner. Marlow Peterson often talks about "opening the door a little wider" to expand marble knowledge. That info may not be complete, but it is a start of a new chapter of info.I accept as it is right now,moving knowledge ahead of yesterday's info. I do not recognize the base color as Pelt.The frit colors look German to me. Every fiber of my body says German or Mexican, but the provenance is very strong so until proven otherwise I will go with Pelt. Statistically, it would be suicide to do otherwise from my perspective. This is not the first Pelt confetti I have seen. Sellers Peltier experimented all the time. He was a master. It matters not what we think about what was read coming from a safe in this case. The stuff from the safe proves a particular point and that point would generally be what a particular document is about. Like the thread where I talked about marble collecting ultimately being tactile and got jumped, I will send you back this year when there were two Pelt threads running at the same time. While those ran, two of us talked almost daily about things pictured that were very rare. No one said anything. We said nothing and watched to see who saw what. If you go back to the one about baseballs and look carefully,you will see a common white Champion Jr with confetti. The hunt has been on ever since. If the original "giftee" of this mib chooses to post, fine. If not,then we know what we know so far, no more, no less. We will just have to wait for more info. The JABO experience is part of this too. Time spent watching while marbles are being made adds to the understanding of the process that McCullough uses and what those before him might have done. We now know for sure that Pelt, Vitro, Vitro Anacordes, the Chinese (for HOM), Mexicans, MK, and JABO at least made some experimental confettis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck G Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hi Steve, sorry about the last post. You talked about the base glass and after reviewing the photos really close and reflecting back on some rarer pelts i have seen this base glass in one other pelt nlr only. In my opinion who really knows who made what and when and lots of experiments happened quite often when they played with the glass. The more we all dig into the history the more we will learn. Chuck G-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Sellers Peltier was indeed one of the greatest marble making experimenters of all time, but I don't believe he had a hand in this beast, and I doubt that it is a vintage Peltier marble. It is conceivable, however, that it could have been made by, for instance, George and Terry Zellers, at Peltier in the 90's, to diminish the boredom of making a run of industrial marbles for paint cans. mike b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 I hope this was more than a stir the pot hit and run post. Sure would like to hear the story about where when etc. the marble came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 So, a guy walks in to a marble show ten years ago, with a few nice Peltier marbles, and two confetti marbles, this one shown, and a blue one with green spots. He says his dad worked at Peltier years ago, and the confetti ones were experimentals. Two big-time collectors/dealers snap 'em up quick. The story I heard didn't mention when the confetti marbles were made. My best guess is that they were made in the 1990's as I susposed above. To be fair, though, which I really don't want to do, I will mention that the guy that brought the marbles to the show 10 years ago, was about 65 at that time. I don't know when his father worked at Peltier, but he died in 1986 at the age of 78 years, so it was likely before that. I'm still sticking to my presumptions stated above as to who made it and when, because that's the kind of hairpin I am. mike b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Thanks Mike, Sounds like a typical marble story. One someone would use if they wanted to get a decent price for a marble at a show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn691500 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 i seen this when it posted and i guess i waited til everyone else chimed in,, gosh, sorry i have nothing to add, but ya gotta admit it is an interesting mib,,, bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jormibnut Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think it's time to end all of the speculation and give you the story behind this marble. About 10 years or so ago I attended one of the Ottowa marble shows when it was held at the old Glassworkers Union Hall. There was a man walking around with a Lucky Boy #32 box and asking $1250 for it. I looked at the box and it contained a complete mint set of Peltier comics as well as 20 other very nice NLR's and others. He said that he had won it in a marble tournament in Ottowa when he was 14. His name was painted in the inside cover in red nail polish: "Keith Rorhem" (I hope I spelled that right). We dickered a little, but he was firm about the price. He also had a lined pad with him that had a listing of all of the other comic marbles that he had at home. He had thousands. At the time I was trying to complete a Peltier 5 count box with all 2 color (no white) comics. I asked him if he had a two color Annie and he said that he had one at home and if that would cinch the deal he'd go home and get it. He returned in about 15 or 20 minutes with the Annie and this confetti marble which his dad had brought home with him from work. His dad was the Secretary-Traaurer of the union in the 30's or 40's and very often brought pockets full of marbles home for Keith. He said that this marble was an experimental one and Keith gave it to me as part of the deal. I've had this marble in my display box for many years until last year when I posted on this board looking for a few cyan blue peltier feathered slags to fill a Lucky Boy #21 box. Several board members were kind enough to help me and in turn I sent them some marbles for their collections. I also sent the above information for provenence on this marble. I have some red clearies that have an identical base red color as this one that I got from an antique dealer who got it in a box at a rummage sale in Horicon WI last year. The box was marked from the Peltier Co to a toy store and originally held 1000 marbles, but the box was badly torn and there were only about several hundred left. The original #32 box is now in a collection in Kentucky along with the original newspaper articles of Keith winning the marble tournament that he sent me several years ago. Sadly, Keith passed away last year after retiring from the post office. Some of you might remember him from Amana when about 8 or 10 years ago he brought Tote boxes full of Pelt comics to the show. He said that he sold about 90 mint sets that year, and sold many hundreds of others over the next few years. I was told that another blue confetti marble exists in Ottowa but I've never seen it. I hope that this post dispelles any doubts that the marble is truely a pelt experimental. IT's a story that you couldn't make up. Art Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Shoot, wrong again I suspose. Great. So Sellers Peltier made the first guineas. Man, I hate those suckers. Sellers, what a disappointment. (and no, I still don't believe the story.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBlock Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I bought a s**tload of comics and a bunch of experimental NLRs and Rainbos from him one year in Amana. Literally over a thousand marbles. He liked to tell the story about his father (though I thought he referred to him as his stepfather) bringing pocketfuls of comics home every day, and he would go out in the backyard and use them as slingshot ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 must be the same guy Les used to get his Peltiers from, Les told me the guy had 5 gallon buckets in his basement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted June 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Both Galen and Mike don't think this mib is Pelt. Galen proposed that this thread was stirring the pot or a ruse to sell a marble. "Thanks Mike, Sounds like a typical marble story. One someone would use if they wanted to get a decent price for a marble at a show." Galen post #18 "I hope this was more than a stir the pot hit and run post." Galen post #16 I made it very clear that I do not own the mib so can't sell it, nor would I if I were lucky enough to own it. I would buy it if it was for sale. I made it very clear that I recognized neither the base color or the fritt as Pelt. Thankfully, Art posted the provenance. What I think this thread shows that at this point is that no one can PROVE who made this mib. More importantly, this mib and thread show that to "open the door" of knowledge of Pelt a little wider, we must accept Art's provenance. Why? Simply because it would be awfully hard to make up this story. Statistically, in my mind, there is a higher probability that the story is true than that it is false. I would also add that there is another piece of "evidence" that Art didn't tell that strengthens his provenance. additionally, two other people have told of their positive dealings with the man from whom Art got the marble. My conclusions are simple. Because we are slowly learning to rethink what we know about different makers and their experiments, we should give this marble a chance. If proven that it isn't Pelt, we will all know enough to be leery of this sort of "Pelt" in the future. If it proves to be the real deal, then it is another jewel in the crown of Sellers Peltier as a marble maker. "Chance favors the prepared mind." Pasteur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Hell, anybody could make up this story, and despite the provenance, we don't have to believe it. I'm 61 years old. There is very little that I remember clearly from when I was seven years old. Keith Rorem was 65 when he brought those marbles to the show in Ottawa, and he could possibly have been confused about them. Those marbles just look like the 1980's or 1990's to me, not vintage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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