Sample Kit - National<G> Onyx Marbles

[hdesousa]

Nice primas, Galen. They were made in all sizes, #00 to #6.

(calling Gino now...)

Mike,

Tel Gino those are all fake prima agates.

Here are some real ones.

[migbar]

okie-dokie, Hansel.....

Here are some early non-feathered Peltier onyx, including a white, some cerise and maybe a 1" prima and a few milkies....

[hdesousa]

okie-dokie, Hansel.....

Here are some early non-feathered Peltier onyx, including a white, some cerise and maybe a 1" prima and a few milkies....

Nice and valuable pic, thanks.

Are all red Peltier "slags" cerise agates?

Presumably you dug these marbles at Peltier and we can assume they were made there?

If you don't mind, I'll copy this pic to Steph's new topic on moons/moonies/milkies. From your pic we can see what a milkie looks like.

I have a couple boxes of milkies, but don't know for sure if the marbles are original.

[migbar]

These were all dug. I don't know if Peltier made a distinction between, say, cerise onyx, and cerise agate marbles. The three possible milkies in the bottom row look much like acme realers, without a patch, with interior opalescent threads.

[clydetul62]

Very nice pic Mike. Even with pic its going to be hard to tell difference between early non feathered and akro and cac.

On April 12 when we have our local get together I will have early pelt non feathered, feathered, primas, milkies and cerise, and akro cardinals to any who want to study them. This way you can see the difference in hand.

[hdesousa]

Mike, do the three milkies (why do you say "possible milkies"?) have a slight orange glow when back-lit?

Clyde, how do you identify your marbles? In other words, how do you distinguish between a milkie, moon and moonie, especially if you're using your examples for identification?

I often assume the marbles in my boxes may have been "polluted". For example, I see at least two types of marbles in my milkies box identical to the one you recently won at Morphy's:

http://morphyauctions.hibid.com/lot/13723481/peltier-national-milkies-box-set-?cat=0&sort=1&hide=0&qs=1&view=0&aView=0&q=Peltier+National+Milkies+Box+Set.&selCat=0

And only two of the marbles here have that orange glow - the two smallest marbles in the box, which are probably "pollution".

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Akro-Agate-2-Moonies-Flinties-Marbles-Org-Box-/201050348266

[migbar]

Hansel, I said "possible milkies" because I'm no expert, and I've never seen any real ones in person to compare them to. They look like ones I've seen in pictures, though, and these are all I have found, so I suspose that is what they are. All three of mine have a pale orange glow when backlit, as do the Acme Realers that I have.

[BuckEye]

Migbar, the important ID clue was that they all have feathering. That's a major hit. Thanks! They are basically realers (on a feathered moonie base). Minus the patch.

[lstmmrbls]

Or are Acme Realers actually Milkies with a patch?

[migbar]

The milkies definitely came first, so I would say yes.

[lstmmrbls]

The woodgrain like patterns(feathering) inside the milkies and realers is one of the most outstanding feature of machine made marbles IMO

[migbar]

They made other marbles with the milkie base, too, of course.

[hdesousa]

Yes, the internal wispy threads are a major characteristic, but they might not be seen in all milkies.

Here are two National Milkie boxes. Don't remember where I got the upper box from. The marbles vary a bit in size and coloration density. They all have that orange back lit glow and internal threads. Some have that "fish eye" characteristic of Akros, which could well be incidental. (Do some Acme Realers have "fish eyes"?)

The lower box is from a Bob Block auction 16 years ago. They look like a matched set of marbles. All have an orange glow, but none show those internal wisps, probably because the coloration is too dense to make that out.

[hdesousa]

Then to make things more complicated, the marbles in this CA World's Best Moons box (can't vouch that they are original, but they certainly looked matched) also have that orange back-lit glow and internal wisps (some of which look hand gathered).

[hdesousa]

Akro Moonies may be the easiest to identify. They don't have that orange glow. At least none of these do, and they all have that clear "fish eye" channel going through the marble. Marbles look original to the box. Don't know what that turquoise cc marble is doing there though.

[Steph]

Okay, now that is strange.

Akro Moonies are supposedly known for their glow.

Did they sometimes not have it? Was there an era in which they didn't? A narrow window of time when they didn't?

[hdesousa]

Yes, very strange, and it won't be a simple answer, especially with Akro.

Here's a Moonie box from the Running Rabbit auction in 1998

They look like a matched set of marbles, all with "fish eyes" and none glow.

Here's one I recently got on eBay from non-marble dealers.

The only marbles which have that orange glow are the two smaller ones. All marbles have "fish eyes".

[hdesousa]

Here's one with none of it's original marbles. I bought the box from Marblealan and the marbles from Craig Snyder. The marbles came out of a crate of Akro marbles. They all glow, have wisps of translucent white, some form corkscrews and/or fish eyes.

And here's another from Marblealan, the way I got it. All glow, all have fish-eyes.

[hdesousa]

Last one for now;

Bought at a Skinner's auction seven years ago.

None glow, except for the one smaller marble in the upper left corner, looking quite out of place.

All have fisheyes.

[Steph]

So people may have been mis-id-ing marbles based on the glow?

.... what about dug marbles from Akro?

Anyone have dug moonies?

[oldmarblenut]

All 3 were dug at Akro, all 3 have orange glow, sizes are 1/2" 7/16" and 3/8", the patch has a whispy clear area as described in the milkies or realers.

All the marbles that I have ever called Akro moonies have the orange glow, also the old opaline glass also shows the orange glow.

[oldmarblenut]

As I remember the CA moons had a slight blue tint when viewed in hand but glowed orange when backlit??

If you look at Sabino opaline glass you will see the blue tint I mention.

[oldmarblenut]

3 CA moons compared to an Akro moonie, note the light blue tint, I also note that CA's had a more transparent look to them with swirls visible whereas Akro had a more cloudy base with the eye.

[hdesousa]

3 CA moons compared to an Akro monnie, note the light blue tint, I also note that CA's had a more transparent look to them with swirls visible whereas Akro had a more cloudy base with the eye.

Scott, how do you know those are CA moons?

[hdesousa]

All 3 were dug at Akro, all 3 have orange glow, sizes are 1/2" 7/16" and 3/8", the patch has a whispy clear area as described in the milkies or realers.

All the marbles that I have ever called Akro moonies have the orange glow, also the old opaline glass also shows the orange glow.

Interesting.

Some of my Akro moonies glow, some don't.

Some 5/8" do, some don't.

The 11/16" and 3/4" don't.

Do you have anything larger than 5/8" that glows?