C A Moon Question

[Steph]

Thataway -----> link

Oh I guess I'll just copy it here:

It can be said with some certainty that the white marbles are CA moons.

Anyone know of a reliable way of distinguishing CA moons, Akro moonies and Peltier milkies?

[hdesousa]

Here's Mike Barton's pic of Peltier marbles. This is what Pelt milkies look like:

[m!b$]

What makes those Peltier? I would guess most to be Akro. The only one that definitely looks Pelt to me is top row, second from left.

[migbar]

They were all dug at the Peltier factory.

[lstmmrbls]

For many years it was assumed the boxes of Cerise Agate slags were Akro they resemble them so closely. Probably has a lot to do with Arnold Fiedler working at Akro before going to Peltier. And probably the same reason The Prima Agates are nearly Identical to American Agates as he went from Peltier to CAC. Here is a very neat excerpt from Arnolds contract with Peltier.

[migbar]

Of course, that is Galen's opinion, but 10 months after Fiedler was hired, Sellers Peltier expressed his dissatisfaction with Fiedler in correspondence to Gropper, and stated that he had taken over much of Arnold's duties. The furnaces as designed by Fiedler, had to be modified with much development and experimentation by Sellers, in order to make the cerise and agate marbles. Sellers also made several changes to the Miller machines, to improve their performance. Sellers Peltier was a very hands-on kind of guy in the operation of the factory, and was the designer and inventor of several marble machine improvements, delivery systems and feeders, etc. The Peltier Company had been making glass by batch for many years before Fiedler arrived, and in the 1890's was one of the first companies in the country to make opalescent glass. I have seen little evidence of the accomplishments of Fiedler at Peltier, and firmly believe that most of the accolades piled on him, more rightly belong to Sellers Peltier.

[ann]

I have seen little evidence of the accomplishments of Fiedler at Peltier, and firmly believe that most of the accolades piled on him, more rightly belong to Sellers Peltier.

I am so glad to hear you say that. I haven't had the nerve.

[migbar]

I've been saying that for many years, but don't getting me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying, out loud, that when Fiedler left Peltier to go to CAC, he took much of Peltier with him.

(more of a whisper, than out loud, I'd say...)

[lstmmrbls]

While I more than agree that Sellers was probably the brightest guy involved with marble making equipment and its functions, I think Arnold had a lot to to with other parts of the marble production processes. I also read that letter and thought it had a lot of bearing until I realized his contract extended way past the original year> Something to think about. And maybe he stuck to teaching gathering and making glass which would explain the resemblance of many of the slags as the machinery had next to nothing to do with the appearance of the hand gathered marbles. There is also a great resemblance between Akro Pelt and many CAC slag patterns. I personally believe Arnold was big on a method of handgathering that did not produce a lot of the distinct 9s found most prevalent on MFC and Foreign marbles. Although early CACs show some distinct 9s is it not probable that Fiedler was not at CAC during its earliest times???

[migbar]

The original contract with Fiedler was for a period of two years, and was apparently extended to about three years. I agree that Fiedler had much to do with setting up the new furnaces for making onyx marbles, and he taught them how to gather and make marbles on the machines, but Peltier seems to have been responsible for the experimentation and development of the cerise and agate marbles, and the furnace refinements that made them possible. Fiedler likely left Peltier at the end of 1927, and in early 1928, all over sudden, Peltier had his lawyers draw up a "Loyalty Agreement" for future employees to sign, that demanded secrecy concerning all of Peltier's marble making processes, especially regarding Peltier's feeder systems.

[ann]

And, in a whispered aside - - - Fiedler left Akro when Henry Helmers was hired as glass chemist there . . . hmmm.

Just sayin.'

[lstmmrbls]

Or was Helmes hired when Fiedler was hired away from Akro by Sellers on Groppers recommendation and praises to hire ?? And as Mike points out he may have left without a new contract at Peltier for even bigger bucks at CA .(speculation on my part).

[hdesousa]

Here is the CA Moons box, pictured in one of Grist's earlier books. A couple of the marbles have been played with, and I can't vouch that any of the rest are original to the box, but they do look reasonably matched.

All glow. I can't decipher any blue tinge, but I may be colorblind.

Here are the marbles from this Moons box next to the moons marbles from the box pictured in the first post of this thread:

comments?

[migbar]

All in all, they look pretty close to me. Especially with opalescent glass, there can be quite a variance in opacity or transparency from one run to the next. Opalescent glass is tricky.

[hdesousa]

All in all, they look pretty close to me. Especially with opalescent glass, there can be quite a variance in opacity or transparency from one run to the next. Opalescent glass is tricky.

That "variance in opacity or transparency from one run to the next" will surely confound identification.

For example, it's been said that a bluish tinge identifies a CA moon. Well, I wonder if all CA moons have a blueish tinge, or if all moons with a bluish tinge are CA. The same can probably be said for most characteristics of moonies - cut lines, wisps, orange glow, perhaps even feathering.

Even if we come up with some hard evidence that will identify a particular maker, absence of evidence may not be evidence the marble was made elsewhere.

[oldmarblenut]

Here is an interesting moonie, has a metallic streak on the surface and the blue tint I mentioned, 11/16" it also has sort of a hand gathered construction, there is a surfaced bubble right in the center of the folded crease where you can see clearly an ice blue transparent, it glows nice and bright.

Any ideas of maker? I did not dig this at Akro, found in the wild many years ago.

[bigjohn691500]

After seeing ken Humphreys blue moonie one time at a show in kokomo, the matrix had a vortex interior it looked like a tornado inside all that with a blue hue, magnificent MiB I never forgot it after all these years,,,, bj