Lawrence Alley's Shearing Mechanism

[westcoast_dave]

WV Swirls are difficult to I.D., especially for newer collectors. Are there any significant differences between the shear marks or shearing mechanisms used at the various WV swirl sites that may aid in identifying them? Or are there no differences at all? Were their mechanisms designed to keep shear marks as non-visible as possible? Any insight is greatly appreciated.

[BuckEye]

Ive noticed that the early alleys have a similar shear mark to the cac swirls. Thats why they are often confused with each other, And the bright colors obviously. The shear is a straight line and will have a little loop under it, looking like a smiley face almost. While most cacs swirls I have will have a straight shear and another straight line loop underneath. Ill draw a picture and try to post pics for comparison.

[lstmmrbls]

I have not noticed a shear mark on any CACs swirls or Alley swirls that I have, You can sometimes find the end of the stream and often on CACs it will be folded back upon its self , I see that on some Champions but not Alley agates, I do see a folding that is some what similar but CACs seem to flame completely around the marble and many Alley flames will have folding on one side, I think Alley consistantly used a thinner stream than CAC which results in different busy patterns than found on CACs, I have never seen either shear so I do not know if they were of the same type. Here is a classic CAC "tongue"

[Steph]

Would be fun for people to pose marbles from different makers in a way which shows of the ends of the streams.

"Were their mechanisms designed to keep shear marks as non-visible as possible?"

I'm going to guess that this wasn't a point of concern.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Well,if its any help,current swirl producers have been useing round edged shears,while marble king has a "v" shaped shear.

[westcoast_dave]

Thank you for clarifying that Galen. I've been under the impression that those were cut marks.

Marble King's "V" shaped shear sounds like US patent 1,993,235 for the Lawrence Glass Novelty Co. which is a separate mechanism and adaptable to the marble machine. Marble king did produce swirls at one time??? I wonder if these sheers could have been used elsewhere in WV??? This particular patent was submitted in 1933.

[ann]

Marble King's "V" shaped shear sounds like US patent 1,993,235 for the Lawrence Glass Novelty Co. which is a separate mechanism and adaptable to the marble machine. Marble king did produce swirls at one time??? I wonder if these sheers could have been used elsewhere in WV???

I think MK did produce swirls at one time, early on, probably just when Alley morphed into Marble King. There's a really good article about that by -- Gerald Wichter? Forgive me if I have the name wrong; the author deserves a great deal of credit for pursuing the idea, and presentinng it in a way that is perfectly understandable. It was published first I think in the Texas Marble Collector's newsletter, and then in the WV one?

Forgot I had these pics. These are two MK swirls I missed out on, on ebay, a couple years ago. Much to my continuing regret.

[ann]

"Were their mechanisms designed to keep shear marks as non-visible as possible?"

I'm going to guess that this wasn't a point of concern.

Might have been. Wasn't it dull shears that produced the "eyelashes" found on some corkscrews? Or so the theory goes? (The erroneously-named "pre-Freeze" ones?),

Personally, I like them, but apparently Akro had some interest in getting rid of them

For my own information -- what do we call shear marks that are visible in the glass but not felt on the surface? Cut lines as opposed to shear marks? Since they really aren't marks? In particular I'm thinking about the clear cut lines visible in the white striations of the Pelt feathered slags . . .

Also, for the one- or two-seamed CACs that are smooth? Do you call them cut lines, Galen?

[lstmmrbls]

I usually call them seams. And I don't think swirls have cut lines, shear marks or seams. The stream is so liquid and small on a swirl there really is no cut line shear mark or seam to be found IMO. The end of the stream is some times not buried in the marble but thats all it is. The end of the stream. No shear mark is found. Many machines had actual scissor like shears, many had the blade like V shaped and many had the sliding block shear shown above, similar to the set ups at Jabo and others.

[westcoast_dave]

Great explanation for the end of the stream. And that just about answers my shear question too. So basically, the older swirls will have a thicker stream?

[ann]

I usually call them seams. And I don't think swirls have cut lines, shear marks or seams . . .

Works for me. And I agree.

Also agree about the occasional end-of-stream and / or tongue-type thingie.

And I do like a good drizzle on occasion. And the uncommon, striking "tornado" I've found on a very few of the JABO special runs . . .

[ann]

So basically, the older swirls will have a thicker stream?

I haven't thought about that, but off the top of my head I might say "not necessarily." Maybe with the CAC flame / Alley flame thing. But some later Alleys, like from St. Mary's, have wide/thicker streams . . . Ron would know more about those. And Champion swirls can be thick-streamed . . .

Going off to mull it over . . .

[lstmmrbls]

Some of the oldest swirls have the smallest streams (Think Flames). And some of the smallest streams I have seen are found in the veilglas (SP) marbles

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

To me,a "seam" is a cut line.

If a marble blank is cut from a stream of glass,it has a cut line,even if it is folded inside the marble.

They come in differant shapes.Some are rounded,straight,shaped like a v or a u.

The smaller the stream,the "busier" the marble is.(most of the time).