Steph Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 If the marble in question is on the right here, it looks sort of rainbo-y to me. How many ribbons does it have? And I've been saying six ribbons on angels but now I've lost track trying to count the ribbons on the angel pics. The most often circulated pic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Could this one be a ketchup and mustard instead of an angel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Could this one be a ketchup and mustard instead of an angel? totally agree steph .... bill .......... was joking on previous post to get chuck going .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck G Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Bill, looks like i may have to take a trip east to (straighten) you out!! You have been in the (HILLS) way to long!! Chuck G-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 well that's one marble from this link http://marbleconnection.com/topic/17016-peltier-angels/?hl=angel sold as an Angel. I'll ask again...do you see the other marbles in this http://marbleconnection.com/topic/17016-peltier-angels/?hl=angel and are they Angels? In post #26, the red and green look (on my screen) to be as white as the B&E. Steph, are they rainbo-y looking to you? What's the difference between NLR and Rainbo.......the ribbons being on or near the surface? If that is true then the B&E is NLR. Thanks again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 B&E? Is that what the yellow and white is being called? I'm not happy with that name! Like really really really not happy with it! Where's the bacon? I need more photos of it to cement my Rainbo feeling on that one. Still ... on my screen ... whether it is new or old ... that base looks quite close to white. I stayed out of that Angel thread that year because I wasn't comfortable with it. Angels, "variants", marbles not being in hand, etc. Most of the marbles in that thread did not look like Angels to me. The difference between a Rainbo and an NLR is not ribbons being on the surface or running deep. And contrary to some statements made many years ago, NLR ribbons do or can run deep. http://marbleconnection.com/topic/7211-pelt-pieces/ Right now I don't feel comfortable thinking of words to describe the difference between NLR and Rainbos. It has become a gestalt thing for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 So far there are only three recognized Angel color combinations. To get another color combination recognized as being an Angel, you'd need to have a slam-dunk case for it. Dead on in traditional base color and traditional ribbon configuration. Having a variant of a variant probably wouldn't be enough to get people to welcome the alternate color combination into the Angel family. That's the best way I can summarize my feelings on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 not trying to name a marble.....not important to me at all! I got to name my dog...that's good enough for me. Knowing the look of the weakest color of "tannish" that makes an Angel, is. It helps both buyer/collector and seller in the marble world. Maybe I started this thread off wrong by showing a marble I believed to be off white or tannish. Maybe this color of base is more distinguishable in hand and I'll wait to see at a show. I see in the pic of 3 that the red one looks the most like a whitish base and ask others thoughts on the color......It's not hard to get an opinion on the base color of the B&E. The old post has a few whitish so called Angels...am I stepping over some line by questioning them to better understand? As far as NLR vs Rainbo......I see that questioned here and different opinions by seasoned collectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedidoll Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Personally when I saw Zaboos pictures I thought they were on too light of a base,,,BUT,,,I know sometimes its very hard to get the true colors in a picture..AND I also feel that Dani and her hubby have forgotten way more about marbles than what I know so I did not feel "qualified" for lack of a better word to make a comment so when she commented that in hand the base color was "muddy" I believed her. Just my opinion about the pictures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 B&E? Is that what the yellow and white is being called? I'm not happy with that name! Like really really really not happy with it! Where's the bacon? Right now I don't feel comfortable thinking of words to describe the difference between NLR and Rainbos. It has become a gestalt thing for me. I am so much in agreement with Steph about the above ^^ that it's ridiculous . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 First and foremost this is not an argument..........!!!!!!!!!!!! I just wanted an opinion by photos what people thought about the base color on the only Angels available to show.......not who posted them as to pick on them. I think the 2 marblealan posted are whitish but are zaboo's and alan's Angels? With having this answer I can now call my marbles with confidence what the standard allows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I ain't arguing! I don't know enough about angels and tracers to make a peep. Bacon, though, I got an opinion on! And although I think I can usually tell the difference between an NLR and a Rainbo, I wouldn't dare try to put it in words. I wish I could! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedidoll Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 pleas mon,,I am not arguing either....just explaining why I couldn't make a call...that and I am usually wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 What they said. I don't feel like I'm arguing. More like discussing. And trying to explain why I don't feel comfortable talking about the white-ish looking ones. If Alan or Zaboo calls it an angel variant then they carries weight. I don't feel comfortable with it though, and so I feel especially uncomfortable extending the definition without a lot of specific boxes being checked off. And so far the boxes don't look like they will be checked off. Some because what is shown isn't matching my idea of angel, and some because I'd like to see more details I haven't seen yet. But definitely not arguing in a bad way. Hope people aren't becoming too frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarab Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'll take a stab at the NLR/Rainbo difference, WTHeck!! Rainbo, blue and yellow. See how ribbons slightly fade away? NLR Cub Scout: See how ribbons don't fade away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarab Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Another example: I know it can't be this easy.....I'm sure each of you have 20 exceptions to my marble "logic". Rainbo, fading ribbons: NLR: non-fading ribbons (well, the green is fading, but......well, darn-it, they are just more, you know? solid/substantial/meatier) Both posts pictures are copied and pasted from Peltier.com..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 A coupla nice comparison shots there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 And "meatier" is a word I sometimes think of in connection with the NLR's. Then there are ones which are sort of in-between as far as how meaty they look and they sometimes get called "tweeners" and spawn grand discussions. Not everyone likes the name "tweener". I do though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 My arguing statement was to make all aware of my state of mind.....I felt my tone of questioning was pushy from rereading. Well, things may have changed...but I'll say this, when alan was around it was not taboo to question his titles and many did. It's good to have checks and balances too! I want to know so the marble police don't knock down my door but if I sell something and it's the wrong ID, please tell me...I can take it! How do I cross the barrier to know for myself.....can't call the top few every time I see a marble. P.S. I just received my first marbles today in the mail! YeeHawww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinemades Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 If I take the risk to describe the difference between early Peltiers and later Rainbos; Early Peltiers have different glass, more defined patterns, stronger colors. Offset ribbon configuration, ying yang pattern, swirls are all earlier Peltier characteristics that does not show in later Rainbos. Also, in earlier years Peltier produced certain color combination consistently. Later years all kinds of colors were introduced, but early combos like Christmas Trees, or Rebels were gone. Although there are Rainbos with aventurine, early aventurine was never produced in later years, which maybe because aventurine glass was expensive and Peltier wanted to cut costs down for profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 "Angels" a family type with the tannish base glass with opaque swirls of color, note: there are ribbon types of this also especially in the red and blue examples. Chuck G-- Chuck, were did you go? The ribbon types you mention above, are they rainbos that you are talking about? I was waiting on your opinion of the one in the old post I linked. Are they Angels and are they NLR or just rainbos? This is nice talking things out and backing it up with visual aids. Also, how or why is this not and Angel type? http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-COLOR-SCHEME-MUDDY-BROWN-MATRIX-THREE-COLOR-PELTIER-MARBLE-/321656630902?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae43aae76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Thanks Sami for describing the differences! Not sure what all the talk is about ......I see a difference in opinion of what is NLR and what is not.........ribbon count and so on. I posted the shallow ribbon definition as tongue and cheek.....it's in the book..get the book... never mind! Steph, posted a Poison Bee in the rare pelt thread....she asked....is it NLR or Rainbo? These are the type that I struggle with also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedidoll Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Just a thought....the type in that thread and Steph's are "inbetween" conversion to using the less expensive glass and configuration to the newer style that they went to so the cost of production would allow them to still make marbles and money,,,hence the word "tweener" fits really well? The company still had some of the "old" glass but had the new "machinery" to make the marbles with less ribbons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck G Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Darla, you and Stephs term "Tweeners" is great and i do also see stuff that scratches my head. When did peltier stop this run and went into the next newer types of marbles? They had many machines, (i think 13 total) and as the newer machines came into play, yes agreed that they wanted to save money and make the cheeper type marble for the profit margin. I love the discussions of the difference and when the NLRs were last made and into the Rainbos? I still struggle like most on what do we call it, an nlr or rainbo? OK, in my opinion, and some may dissagree with this. We all look for the HTF pelts, must agree with this with all the newer information coming out, including me which (drives) our passion to find and totally understand what they are? I kinda look at this way,with many many thousands of marbles i look at every day, that does it really matter wheather it be an nlr or rainbo if it falls into the VHTF catagory, the money is there once its talked about. WE ALL control the market by the information readly available from books to the shows to the web. Mon, for you, and your question. Sometimes i back away a little on the forums to give others their chance to ask and add their thoughst to great inquiries. Your photo that looks like and i agree an "Angel" but is truly (in my opinion) a rainbo "Tracer" type. The "Angel" family falls towards the nlr family, especially the swirly ones, (except) for some tweeners like Steph mentioned. The pelt "BaconnEggs" is still a great marble and sumwhat harder to find. I need to take a photo of a group of all tracer types and post it so you can see the difference. Peltier produced many many examples of this tannish/earthtone base glass with truly thousands of examples to find. I will always keep an open mind to change as well as newly found examples to expand the knowledge everyone seeks. As i mentioned some opinions and conjecture until i can positivly prove it with examples. Chuck G-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Also, how or why is this not and Angel type? http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-COLOR-SCHEME-MUDDY-BROWN-MATRIX-THREE-COLOR-PELTIER-MARBLE-/321656630902?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae43aae76 On the marble at the link, the white and yellow ribbons appear to be carefully paired up with each other. I've been hoping someone would remind me of the ribbon count on the angels since they're so hard to count in the photos. But first of all they are difficult to count in the photos, which is different from this more tracer-looking marble. And secondly, I think there are different numbers of yellow and colored ribbons on the angels. They aren't evenly matched like on the tracer-looking marble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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