cheese Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I just scored this little beauty. It's not 100% mint, but nice enough. It reminds me of the salesman case Alleys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 How skinny the stream must have been on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I know, right? How were these types made? I mean, obviously they weren't just a glob of glass that got sheared off as it drained out of a tank. I can see the stream and how it trickled and layered for what must have been a few seconds before it got sheared. What held this pile of glass while it was running out of the machine? Was it just drizzling down onto the rollers as they rolled and twisted it up and then the shears cut it loose and off it went down the rollers? Obviously, this type took a good bit more time to produce and wasn't made when during the years when quantity was king over quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Alleynut Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 How they are made is a very good question, if the answer was easy Jabo, Vacor, and perhaps Marble King would pe pumping them out by the thosands in not millions,as well as Sammy's and now Dave's. and yes they do all look staked and or layered, Jabo about two years ago made some peewees that had some off the charts flames alot of them not just swirls in that run, many many 6-10 point flames, But did anyone moniter or was it possible to take the tank tempeture? No. anyone take notes on what was going on when they were rolling down the tray? doubtful. perhaps in the future these things will and might occure again and some one will get it figured out, at this point all that is known is they are really a random effect or a accurance, this is why some of the better Alley, Cac, and even some rare Jabo's command top dollar, as far as time per marble goes not seconds to stack a pattern about 2 marbles per second when the stream is flowing right.here's a busy Alley, front and backside. DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 That's a pretty one! I have one really busy one that is all tan... makes it hard to see all the action going on, but it's got a lot. If that much ribbon was able to run out of the tank in a half second, it seems like it would have to be flowing really fast since it's such a thin stream. You don't think the ones with a ton of ribbon took longer to make than the ones with just a little bit of a fatter ribbon? I don't know, I imagine them taking a bit longer and paying more attention when they made mibs like this than when they made the regular run of the mill marbles. I'm just speculating though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Uh oh. You asked for it. Buncha people here interested in how the machines worked (or work even today). I'm one. So, in short (or you could read the Peltier patent that's been the subject of discussion here . . .) Those patterns are not random accidents, but they are still very hard to produce because there are so many variables. There have been some threads here about this -- some connected to the production of the Pelt "feathered" slags comes to mind. But I don't know what keyword would get you the best results in a search. Variables can include the slant of the tank's floor; where the additional colors are added into the tank (the side? the top?) and how much; the design of the nozzle mechanism where the glass drains out of the tank (for instance whether or not there's a constriction / bushing built into the nozzle to cause the glass to pile up or layer in it before it exits the nozzle); how much & how fast does the glass exit the nozzle; the distance the glass drops before it gets to the shearing mechanism; whether that distance and the amount of glass causes a whipping or back-and-forth of the glass stream; whether or not there are any drafts of wind hitting the glass stream; or whether or not the stream "hangs up" slightly on the shears as the mechanism is running; and so forth and so on. Even the weather can make a difference (barometric pressure can affect the tank). And some of it -- like barometric pressure -- just isn't controllable. Sometimes I wonder how anyone got any consistency at all, much less some of the incredible flames & swirls on both vintage and new marbles . . . I get tired just thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 yes .. busy ... now, figure out how ??? bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yeah, I know just enough about how they made marbles to be able to very generally describe the process, but how they did anything beyond shear a stream of glass and roll it into a round ball on the rollers, I don't know. I am very mechanically minded though and I look at things like this and reverse engineer them in my mind... thinking about how it must have been done or how I would attempt to do the same. I guess it doesn't matter, but it's where the mind wanders. I look at one like this and can't help myself... I have to wonder how they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yeah, I know just enough about how they made marbles to be able to very generally describe the process, but how they did anything beyond shear a stream of glass and roll it into a round ball on the rollers, I don't know. I am very mechanically minded though and I look at things like this and reverse engineer them in my mind... thinking about how it must have been done or how I would attempt to do the same. I guess it doesn't matter, but it's where the mind wanders. i've watched the process many times and ... wow ... sooooo many factors to consider in what rolls down the shute. everything is set 1 moment .. then somebody opens a door and .... here come ... production factors from temp. changes ... wind ... etc.. etc .. etc .... bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Wow. So it sounds like there is a lot of experience and intentional setup of the machinery at play here, and also a lot of plain old luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 some of the pattern of the transparant Alley's remind me of the transparant Amsterdam swirls made by Veiligglas. I like that kind of pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Alleynut Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yes Ann, Varyables to many to count and or imagine, I still believe that the glass tempeture plays a major roll in this mystery, since the tanks are not really Tempeture controlled and there is no way unless a high temp thermometer is installed to wacth closley, it will still be a random occurance, as an example I was at the Joker III run Feb 26th 2010 Great time! I was watching closely at one point about 5-6 hours in, all of a sudden one of the familys (color group) started coming out All Flames wow I said they are all flames And I grabed my camera which has video mode and started filming, I got about a 2 minute clip of this, everyone was pretty excited,any one taking notes of why perhaps this was occuring? No, Was it the heigth of the stream ? was it the temp of the glass? Guess what when the next family of colors were dropped they went back to swirls, no real flames to speak of what changed? same heigth of the stream no one touched anything, So ????? when this occures detailed notes need to be taken quickley about everything going on, but everyones so blown out by whats being produced, no one does a thing but watch all the beautiful flames roll down the tray. You had mentioned reading how the Peltiers produced marbles, where are the Peltier Flames ??? do you have one say a nice 6-10 point Peltier Flame? does anyone? I dont think so. the Veiligglas Flames can be quite extreme, so how come some are Spaghetti wirepulls yet others are tightline razor ribbon flames? (a few pics below) Then I added a few of mine, I have a fairly good grip on how they are produced by the machine, but I live nowhere near the current marble makers so input is not happening, and I bet they have tried just about every trick in the book to make it happen, but they cant seem to pull them off on a consistant basis, which really leads me to one thought the exact temp of the glass when they are coming out all flamey, I believe that is a key factor, DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Very nice,the ones you have made!! I mean this pattern reminds me of the first marble posted,second pic-. It's kind of a fern plant leaf or fan-shaped (with a bit of fantasy),I see it sometimes on both Alley and Veiligglas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Alleynut Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 It seems to happen alot with Alleys, a leaf or small tree pattern sometimes one on each side of the marble, and thank you for the comment on my clays, I still enjoy making them, mostly because I cant find any (Good Ones) just got back from getting some more clay, spring needs to get things warmed up so I can get back to the stonework, Meanwhile perhaps a few more marbles need to be made to pass the time. DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted March 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Your handmade ones have better flames than any of the machine mades I think. I keep thinking I'll try my hand at it one day, but Lord knows I have enough irons in the fire!! It looks like you have mastered the art though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Alleynut Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Thanks Cheese, I think I have the flames under control (Maybe) this is why I'm movin on to the Agates for awhile, DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I still believe that the glass tempeture plays a major roll in this mystery, since the tanks are not really Tempeture controlled and there is no way unless a high temp thermometer is installed to wacth closley, it will still be a random occurance, as an example I was at the Joker III run Feb 26th 2010 Great time! I was watching closely at one point about 5-6 hours in, all of a sudden one of the familys (color group) started coming out All Flames wow I said they are all flames And I grabed my camera which has video mode and started filming, I got about a 2 minute clip of this, everyone was pretty excited,any one taking notes of why perhaps this was occuring? No, Was it the heigth of the stream ? was it the temp of the glass? Guess what when the next family of colors were dropped they went back to swirls, no real flames to speak of what changed? same heigth of the stream no one touched anything, So ????? I agree! I know that some attempt was made to have the tank temperature controlled / regulated by computer (such as it was at the time) by the new owners of Vitro when they moved it to Anacortes, but . . . As far as I know, the closest that Peltier ever came to flames were the feathered slags. Some individual ones have what appear to be flames at some point in their patterns, but flames certainly weren't what Peltier was looking for. "Striations" is the word used over and over in that one particular patent. I mentioned it really because one of the patent drawings is a good example of a modification to a nozzle, if anyone was interested. I particularly like the Alleys with the fern-leaf-tree or leafy branch pattern! I get those whenever I can . . . And I like your new agate experiments, Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Alleynut Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Thank You Ann, the adventure is just beginning with the Agate Style marbles, Here's a couple Busy Alleys first showing the front side, then the back with the leaf/tree/flame spray. DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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