J_Ding Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Would like to know what others think about this marble at 0.60" I see at least two concepts concerning these, and at times they are opposed to each other. One claims CA American Agates are more opaque and variable in the ribbons color tending to orange, and the other is that AA are cloudy translucent and opaque and more narrow in color range in the red. And v.v. for Primas. My examples fall out nicely into these groups, and I guess now I think the former is for CAC (more opaque), and the latter is for Prima (more cloudy). I am leaning Pelt Prima on this example...thinking that Prima tends to be a bit more cloudy, a bit more translucent. In addition, I can easily see the glass being Pelt on this one, but don't ask me why. But like I've said before, I'm not really sure what to think about these, and I have some examples, and since these were foundational marbles for each manufacturer, I really want to know. Don't you? Anyone want to discuss a few examples of these? I'll post this as mib #1 for easier reference. I recognize I might be all backwards on this. Heck, maybe this is neither of them. Thanks! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Ding Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 This one is 0.70" and I think, an American Agate. The nine is in white, and I include an under-exposed example that shows it differently. Here the colored ribbons is more variegated in color than the other type, and there is less transparent glass overlaying the opaque. What do you think about mib #2? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 The second one does not look like a Prima Agate, to me, being so opaque. The first one may be a Prima Agate, being translucent, but I couldn't say for sure. I am not as familiar with these types as I would like to be, having never seen them in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 i originally believed the AAs were more transparent and the Primas more Opaque. Then I got six different 2 seam American Agates(I have seen 1 box of the 2 seam types) and them being more opaque I flipped to thinking The hand gathered AAs were the more opaque and the Primas the more transparent. Well I am now the proud owner of a box of American Agates supposedly all original but 2(from grandmas sock drawer) and they are almost transparent to near Opaque, I now do not know if I can tell the difference. I also have purchased a box of Prima Agates several years ago and believed them to be AAs. They were all mixed with my AAs and Primas and there was very little difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I'd go for the Primas being more translucent, too. I think there's a better picture that maybe Steph can find, going back to an older Prima thread . . . but here's one I have -- (photo I mean, not box!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblebee Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I realize this isn't helping much, but I bought this 0.73" "American Agate" from an old time collector at a show a couple of years ago. I don't see any obvious transparent glass but there is a definite underglow of pink in some areas almost like semi-translucence or opalescence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 This is so frustrating for me my brain is ready to explode. maybe 1/2 in the Prima box came in the box. All but 2 in the AA box are supposedly original (The box is from an Ohio address) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Uh oh. Galen, you better send those to me so I can help you with this struggle. I know I could figure it out if I just stared at them long enough. I know I could. I swear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 The ones in Galen's box on the left with the orangey tone don't look like Prima Agates to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclsu Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Are there any Cac boxes that are labeled prima agates, or is it just gropper? Perhaps gropper called them primas, Cac called them American agates but they are the same? Marble mania has several pics of Peltier marbles in gropper prima Agate boxes, though I am sure they may not be original to the boxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Prima Agates were Peltier marbles, so named by Peltier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 American Agates were made by Christensen Agate Company and named by Christensen Agate Company. Now there was that fellow that mixed glass and taught hand gathering methods at both companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Ding Posted December 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 This is really helpful discussion. Maybe we can start say that some specimens of AA we can ID...that the variegated orange and red on white are AA and very likely all those of this type in the right box like that are, in fact, AA too. I really feel strongly are distinctive and don't cross into that shared similarity that both types have when they become more translucent. Maybe those will remain either or for some time. The left box really does mess me up if I look at it too long, and but the right box looks more uniform overall (might be an illusion from size similarity)...but I just can't find the two outliers. I'm going to look at that picture for a good while. Thanks everyone for an informative thread. I'm going to pull mine all out again and move them around. More examples to come. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Galen...from the documentation and correspondence, I came away with the strong impression that Sellers Peltier had much to do with the development of the Prima Agates, very much more so than that Arnold fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck G Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Hi John, drop me an e-mail please. Chuck G-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 That is very likely Mike, Then Arnold more than likely took what he learned to CAC Just to make things clear the marbles in the Prima box are probably a mix of both, and the marbles in the AA box do range from almost clear to almost opaque, and they are supposedly all original to the box except 2. If red was not one of my colorblind colors it may be possible they would look much more different to me than they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 The two that look most different to me in the box on the right are in the fourth column, the second one down, and the fourth one down. Just guessing, I know nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Ding Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Seems like a coin toss, all this. Still, I'm crazy about these...don't much care they are more monochromatic, to some boring. I'll take them off your hands. This is my AA/Prima hog...bigger at 0.82" and a real fine mib IMHO. I don't expect anyone to chime in, but please do if so inclined. I've gone back and forth on this one...now thinking this is CA. Tomorrow, Pelt, etc, etc. Some resemblance to the left box, bottom left. We can call this #3 for the post (the boxes excepted). John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Ding Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Bumblebee might have something, with the pink that emerges from the underlaying red....hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Ding Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 This one is at 0.72", example #4...if anyone cares. Not too much in the overlaying pink here. Again, back and forth, back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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