Transitionals

[budwas]

Question,   looking at pictures of MFC slags on the net I notice that some have what I will call a inverted 9 or mirrored. What was going on here? Is it that they were gathered with a clockwise spin or counter clockwise? 

 

 

[Steph]

Akro corks came about 50-50 in the direction that they spun.  But those were purely machine-made.

 

It seems natural that the handgathered marbles would mostly spin the same way.  Like mostly being made by righthanders working in an orderly fashion.  But that's just my impression.  I could be full of water.

 

I have seen some marbles which I think of as Asian which have a spin going opposite of what I think is the usual direction.  So that got me wondering if in Asia they had their marble-making process set up opposite of ours. 

 

Hopefully someone who knows more will weigh in  ... and maybe have pictures.   This discussion probably could use some pictures.  

[budwas]

I just borrowed this from a site that sales marbles. Said it is MFC. Im sure some workers were left handed. That could explain it.

 

[Steph]

I do not recognize that as MFC.

Opaque yellow with white?  I do not recognize that combo at all.  Not for MFC.

If it is handgathered, my guess would be Asian. 

[budwas]

Laughing here. So it says Leighton. 

http://www.kuzich.com/MARBLES/TRAN.html

I Googled MF Christenson horizontal slags. Anyway, it's all so much fun for me and learning more every day. I'm starving for knowledge and you all are feeding me a six corse meal. 

 

[Steph]

Ohhhh ... "Leighton" ... I didn't consider that.  

That's a loaded name.  There are German handmade slag-like marbles which used to be called Leighton.  

And there are American handmades which actually did come from Leighton companies, in the 1800's to maybe early 1900's.  

 

Just slightly overlapping with the beginning of the M.F. Christensen period.  

 

But they're outside my comfort zone.  So I'll get the popcorn.  

 

 

(p.s., I question the bottom purple one being MFC ... but I better shush now and wait for other comment and enjoy my popcorn)

 

[budwas]

Popcorn sounds good, think I'll go make myself some and a vanilla latti to go with it. By the way i trust your opinion more then I can say. And your fast! Lol

[lstmmrbls]

The way the hand gathering furnaces and rounding machines were set up, At least at MFC and Akro, a left handed person would probably not have been used as a gatherer, The pictured marble(more pics would help) looks more like a Japanese type than any others to me, 

[J_Ding]

You see reference to reverse gathers from time to time, but in my experience, they are scarce.... I've found very few legitimate examples for my effort. I'm not talking about lazy or poorly formed nines, but real mirrored nines. Wondering if this is what the slag people have seen.  My thinking is that this example is probably MFC (the other possibility would be CAC), and not even sure this is totally legitimate. John

[budwas]

John; I'm finding this all very interesting. A left handed person would need to work from the opisit side of the rolls in order to stay out of the way of the right handed workers. Haha I better go put on some more coffee. 

 

 

[J_Ding]

Got your coffee?   Another example for conversation. This one is a bit easier to see as reversed. Thinking MFC (outside chance of CAC with all that white).

[Steph]

John, I may not be understanding about your green one. 

I feel like I'm seeing a "proper" 9 and tail on that one.  Small, but going in the expected direction.  

[budwas]

There it is, whomp, there it is, whomp.  How did that happen? Bud tapping foot on the floor.

[budwas]

Looks backwards to me but than the water spins counter clockwise here when I flush the toilet and clockwise in Montana. Haha Steph I'll bend over and you can kick me now.

[J_Ding]

Yes, the green one is a bit of a hall of mirrors....not really decided on it...an optical illusion probably (like the faces and wine glass thing depending how you see it).  Although, I think the gather is running up, and horizontally on the outside, and ending near the pole, rather than coming through the center to the pole and then running horizontally on the outside to the seam (does this make sense?).  

[budwas]

No

[Steph]

I think so.  

It's so full of white that the white we would normally see coiling inside is busting out onto the surface, so the  spectacular "wrong" coiling should really be compared to the innards of a normal slag.  [Insert photo here.]

And then it finishes off at the top with a little tail.

 

... Is that what you mean ... or am I projecting?

 

 

[J_Ding]

I think that's what I mean. Who knows!  I don't even know anymore!  This thing is making me dizzy...maybe I shouldn't finish off this IPA  But seriously, yes I mean exactly as you say.  The tail of the nine runs out and doesn't make it to the cut.  It has really a nine or a mirror depending on how you view it. Hilarious, if but pointless, marble 'problem.'

[I'llhavethat1]

Big blue going the wrong way.  I think that's what you mean, right?

 

 

[budwas]

Yes that's it.  I just read this on Alen's site. "Sometimes inverted" but still don't know how that happens. I know I'll be tossing in my sleep tonight. 

 M.F. Christensen marbles have a diagnostic trait known as the "nine and tail." Basically, as the glass was twisted from the furnace a nine-shaped spiral (sometimes inverted) was left on one pole of the marble. Often, this "nine" exhibits a "tail" that spirals around the marble and either ends at the opposite pole or terminates somewhere in between, even occasonally looping back to the point of origi

[Steph]

Nice pic, That1.

 

 

[Steph]

I was able to briefly study a group of marbles that came from a dump in Shanghai.  And I can't swear to it, but the way I recall it, all of the swirls when the "wrong" way.  (There were more in addition to these, but I don't have as clear of pix of them.  Still I think all went the wrong way.)  Never learned whether it was a generic garbage dump or a glass factory dump but this is the main inspiration of my idea that maybe in China they had operations set up opposite of how Americans did it.

 

[lstmmrbls]

Or maybe they just learned to swirl the punty counterclockwise instead of clockwise that comes easier to us right handed folks?   I can also imagine a worker giving his last gather before a break a backwards swirl just to mix things up and maybe they did it every so often to help keep their wrists from getting stiff??

[J_Ding]

Maybe a carpel tunnel sort of thing!  That big blue one sure looks like a match to the green one above. 

[ann]

Whichever way the nines go . . .

I'd avoid the use of the word "horizontal" with MFC.  I believe that what most collectors call horizontal slags had melted pontils.  Which would put them into the genuine Leighton class, meaning made in one of J.H. Leighton's glass shops.

 

I seriously, seriously doubt that yellow-in-white marble above is MFC.  Seriously.  Nothing in their history indicates they made marbles like that.  Leighton?  Eh.  Not what I'd expect from Leighton.

 

More I look at it, the more Bulgarian whispers through my mind . . .