PittsburghMarbles Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Sorry I don't have more photos, someone is selling their collection and I went and checked it out and want to know if this is a Navarre? It has the one pontil mark. I have a bunch of Navarres in my collection but haven't ever seen a light blue one like this. Thanks for the help. Untitled by Pittsburgh Marbles, on Flickr Untitled by Pittsburgh Marbles, on Flickr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 I would go along with Navarre. The only other possibility I can think of is Barberton and I don't think this color is right for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Yashuda transitional if i look at the 2nd picture but the first picture , never seen that before 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronmarbles Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Barberton cobalt blue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, akronmarbles said: Barberton cobalt blue. I am obviously wrong about the color, so maybe Barberton - pontil looks melted to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PittsburghMarbles Posted August 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 So a melted pontil is indicative of Barberton? I would agree though that it looks melted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronmarbles Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Barberton was melted pontil - all handmade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronmarbles Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 FWIW - I have cobalt from Navarre and Steubenville as well. Barberton yielded the most cobalt blue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, akronmarbles said: Barberton was melted pontil - all handmade. Man, am I glad you showed up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PittsburghMarbles Posted August 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Is there a good source that has Navarre, Barberton etc marbles? Ive never found any good online sources for those early companies. I have a friend who has a giant collection of Navarre but I am not really sure what the difference between them and Barberton is, as Navarre also has melted pontils sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronmarbles Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 There really isn't a good source. James H. Leighton made identical looking glass marbles at multiple factory locations. Before Navarre there were three in Akron. After Navarre there were three more locations around Ohio. All J.H. Leighton marbles will have a melted pontil. That is a key feature of his patent and manufacturing process. All of the factory sites I have been able to investigate (five total) have an almost identical artifact assemblage showing continuity of process over time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 12 hours ago, akronmarbles said: James H. Leighton made identical looking glass marbles at multiple factory locations. Before Navarre there were three in Akron. After Navarre there were three more locations around Ohio. All J.H. Leighton marbles will have a melted pontil. That is a key feature of his patent and manufacturing process. All of the factory sites I have been able to investigate (five total) have an almost identical artifact assemblage showing continuity of process over time. Does it make sense to drop the location name when describing these types and just call them Leighton's, or can the location of production be reliably determined in some cases? If so, what are some characteristics that would distinguish one location from another? I know it's a big question, and I'll appreciate any response I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PittsburghMarbles Posted August 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 I know exactly where the Navarre factory was in Navarre, OH. It would be interesting to see if anyone’s ever dug around it. I’ve walked the creek behind it before but didn’t find Jack except some modern vitros and such that are in nearly every creek in America. The other places where Leighton etc made marbles are harder to locate online and I can’t find their exact locations, for example I he was in Steubenville and Shadyside Ohio for some time. I found one Leighton style marble a few weeks ago at a construction site at a former 1890s house location in Steubenville that I got permission to poke around at but it was pretty damaged. It would be nice to know where the Leighton sites were if they aren’t already dug out. Maybe I or someone could get permission to dig at them. One can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronmarbles Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 I excavated two units in Navarre in the late 90's. As far as I have heard, the current property owner will not let any more exploration take place. Steubenville last time I visited and scratched around (probably late 90's as well) was an open area with dirt and concrete. It is at the SW corner of Slack and Railroad Streets. Google Maps shows a bunch of colored shipping containers sitting at the site today. I found marble pieces and other waste glass similar to all the other sites I have excavated at. Shadyside is kind of covered by the Ohio River Scenic Byway / RT 7. I haven't physically been to this site yet but it is on my field trip list. I know that a marble researcher named Fred Wright visited here in the early 60's and found scrap glass exactly like what he had found in Navarre. I have a few letters about his research there. I discovered and excavated the Barberton site in 2001. This factory by far had the greatest variety of glass colors produced. I have material from two other sites in Akron: SC Dyke & Co and The American Marble & Toy Manufacturing Co. There was a third Akron location which I know existed. It was obliterated by a flood in 1913 and later covered over by a 6 lane highway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PittsburghMarbles Posted August 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Did Leighton work at The American Marble and Toy Manufacturing? I thought they mostly made clay marbles, like the Akron roller, is that perhaps where Leighton started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronmarbles Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 SC Dyke & Co was first. American Marble and toy 2nd. Then J.H. Leighton & Co - Navarre - Steubenville - Barberton - Shadyside 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'llhavethat1 Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Very interesting. I didn't recall seeing a blue one like that before, lots of purples and greens. But I do have a bigger slag with pontil and reverse "9" so maybe that's where it came from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbusrockhound Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 I have three questions. I repeatedly read "All Leighton marbles will have a round, melted pontil". 1) Is it not actually a 'punty' mark? 2) Previously identified as Navarre (Leighton), but have a ground, or sloppily faceted pontil. See attached. If not Leighton, I'm at a loss. 3) Are Leightons, like the earlier Grenier, hand formed, or machine rolled like MFC? This thread has great info., as I'm adding transitional types to the upcoming new WVMCC web site. Any help is greatly appreciated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Columbusrockhound said: I have three questions. I repeatedly read "All Leighton marbles will have a round, melted pontil". 1) Is it not actually a 'punty' mark? 2) Previously identified as Navarre (Leighton), but have a ground, or sloppily faceted pontil. See attached. If not Leighton, I'm at a loss. 3) Are Leightons, like the earlier Grenier, hand formed, or machine rolled like MFC? This thread has great info., as I'm adding transitional types to the upcoming new WVMCC web site. Any help is greatly appreciated. 1) I think the term "pontil" has simply come to describe a hand-made cut-off mark, regardless of whether the marble is cut off a punty or a cane, or if the cut-off is finished in a particular way. 2) May be a single-gather German slag. 3) I think they were hand-formed but Brian @akronmarbles might know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 This is great information thanks akronmarbles for sharing your knowledge on this type. Should these be named after the man who made them or the town he made them in is a good discussion 🤔👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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